Top Ten Ways to Save the "Tales" Series in the West - News
by VGChartz Staff , posted on 06 February 2011 / 16,017 Views
The recent announcement of Tales of Graces F, presumably for the Playstation 3, could be a crossroads for both RPG fans and Namco-Bandai as a whole. From posts on message boards and in interviews it seems almost as if this game will be a “litmus test” to see if their Tales franchise still has a leg to stand on here in the west. Should we have come to this – a situation where fans not buying a game will most likely kill the franchise in this region? The answer is no, and one company sits squarely with the blame in their lap – Namco-Bandai.
I honestly stopped paying attention to games in the Tales franchise a long time ago. This was due partly to the fact that I kept getting hyped for games that ended up never getting released like Tales of Rebirth and the multitude of DS games in the series. The announcement of Tales of Graces F honestly opened up old wounds. On one hand I will get to play a game that I assumed would never come out over here, on the other, I see more and more games in this franchise announced – most of which I’ll never play.
Here are ten ways to save the Tales series in the west, in no particular order. Granted, I’m no big executive for a videogame company, but I feel that a few of these are common sense.
Brand recognition
Even the most casual gamer has heard of Final Fantasy, whether it is one of the games or one of a multitude of movies, toys, cross promotional items etc. Square-Enix has spent decades building a brand so strong that it personifies role playing games for many people. They could shine up a turd, slap the Final Fantasy name on it, and folks would buy it. Big Bandai-Namco attractions, aside from their two big fighter franchises, have little to no brand recognition of their own. This is especially bad with the Tales franchise. Most folks outside of serious RPG gamers have not really heard of the series; even some fans of Tales of Symphonia on Gamecube have no idea that it is part of a series, much less one that has been running so long. Even a small thing like a DVD retrospective on the history of the franchise packed into one of the games would go a long way to get folks thinking about what makes a Tales game a Tales game.
Stop making excuses and shifting blame
When a possible release of a Tales game comes up in an interview, it’s always met with either a half assed “we’ll keep you posted” response or a flat out refusal of release. Most of these interviews end up with a reason akin to the series being "so niche" that nobody buys it. This is a load of bull and everyone knows it. There are a handful of small companies in America that specialize in such releases, namely Atlus and NIS America, both of which seem to be doing pretty well for themselves with localizations. Both companies use grass roots movements, emails, interviews, blogs and many other modern ways of hyping a game to great success. If a game like Disgaea, with it’s weird humor, or Persona 3, with its cultural references, can do well here, then why can’t an RPG that used to be mildly popular. While I'm at it....
Stop blaming the West for your company’s bad ills
Aside from a lot of their Japanese studios doing very poorly (The Tales studio notably) one would never believe that from press statements, as Namco-Bandai seem to only blame one group. As recent as a few months ago Bloomberg ran a piece called Namco Bandai Shifts Video Game Development to Japan After Flops that basically said “the West sucks at developing our games and I hate them”:
“We found the quality and development speed of titles made for us by the overseas studios to be lacking,” President Shukuo Ishikawa said in an interview in Tokyo yesterday. “Foreign studios can still propose and develop games, but our Japanese staff will control the process more closely.”
In every interview this guy does, one thing seems to come to my mind: “Shukuo Ishikawa hates America”. I know he has never said that in an interview, but he has also never said anything remotely good about a market he supposedly wants to embrace so much. It’s always “the West did this wrong”, “the West hates these games”, “the West wants another Dead to Rights game” etc. Sack up and take some accountability.
Take your localizations seriously
Another series that was once “doomed to never leave Japan” is Capcom’s Ace Attorney series. This game had so many things against it when the first iteration was announced for a U.S. release all those years ago. It was from a genre deemed “dead” in the west, namely the point and click genre; on top of this, the game was VERY Japanese. Capcom hired a clever localization Team and BOOM – Success.
Namco-Bandai’s products have a huge stigma of poor localizations here in the west. A few examples of this are the utter removal of spoken dialog and music in many games, removed “bonus” content, and the worst of all - shoddy translations. One notable example was found in Tales of Destiny. The game famously had a puzzle with a hint translated wrong, thus making the puzzle nearly impossible to figure out without an FAQ. If you thought that was bad, The worst of the worst is in the Tales of Phantasia remake for GBA. Not only was the game riddled with frame rate issues, (only in the U.S. version) but it was littered with “engrish” and misspelled names. They actually translated "Ragnarok" as "Kangaroo" in one scene, making the scene baffling, and unintentionally hilarious.
Know your audience
The eleventh “flagship” Tales game, Tales of Hearts was released for the Nintendo DS not too long ago. Namco-Bandai decided that during development, there would be two versions of the game developed: one that used the trademark “anime styled” artwork synonymous with the series for so long, and one that scrapped that for a more realistic art style similar to most modern RPGs. One can only assume that this decision was to appease those that felt that westerners would only play it if it did not look anime styled, which we all know, is BS (see Atlus and NIS above) After all of the money spent on this endeavor, the game was never released outside of Japan, good job guys. Why scrap an art style that is basically iconic for the series to have it do nothing for sales, and cause a bit of backlash from purists?
If there is one group that these guys should embrace it is the anime fan. Since Namco-Bandai is an anime company, I don’t see why this avenue has not been pursued in the past. Namco-Bandai should start to promote games slanted in that direction on DVDs, conventions, and interviews. Every little bit helps!
Make peace with Fans
Fans want your blood Namco-Bandai; they want your heads on pikes in their yards. While some companies “can do no wrong” in the eyes of their fans, something has gone astray in your public relations department. The recent Facebook pages directly speaking to fans have been a good touch. Fostering some sort of “community” has both shown that the company is aware of fan interests and is there listening, something that up until recently did not happen. I just wish that Namco-Bandai would be more “straight” with their fans. If something isn’t going to be released, just say it isn’t. Don’t say “let your voices be heard” or "we're not sure, I'll put in a good word" because that only hypes fans up more, getting them more disappointed when nothing is released.
Stop choosing the wrong games to bring over
One has to wonder why Namco-Bandai localizes some of the games that they do. As a big Gundam fan I was happy to see the mediocre RPG M.S. Saga get brought over while Bandai was just merging with Namco, but I would’ve honestly preferred to play other games such as Tales of Rebirth or one of the PS2 remake Tales games. One wonders who they felt would purchase a chibi-styled Gundam game aimed at pre-teens sharing nothing with any of the canon anime or manga. Complaining about Bandai’s treatment of Gundam fans in the west is another can of worms best left unopened, but one thing lingers in both cases. Namco-Bandai either does not understand the western game market, or simply does not care whatsoever.
Stop doing irregular releases
We often see weird occurrences where games get released in Europe and not the U.S., delayed releases in one region (Vesperia in Europe), missing ports, and other oddities that infuriate fans. I know the localization process takes time and money, but releasing a game one place and not another when a common language is shared is insane, and forces folks to either bootleg or import said game. Either commit to a series or don't, stop making fans second guess themselves!
Work With Smaller companies
A few years ago a localization / publishing company named XSEED asked its fans to name off some games that they would like for the company to bring over. At the top of the list was a game called Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon, produced by Namco-Bandai. Apparently setting up this arrangement was like pulling teeth, as XSEED originally stated that such a release was impossible due to Namco-Bandai wanting to be the only ones releasing their bigger games. My question is: if a company comes forward saying that they want to release a game you have no intention of localizing, why not let them? What can it hurt? XSEED has even said that they wanted to release some of the missing Tales games, notably the DS ones, but were met with uncertainty:
"We’d be honored to work on the series if ever given the opportunity, but not our decision to make".
Advertise your damn games!
To be honest I wasn’t a huge gamer until the fall months of 1997. Yeah, I played Genesis over at friend’s houses, and rented the occasional game, but I wasn’t really a “fan”. One night I was watching something on TV and a commercial for a new game popped up, one that utterly blew me away:
Previously I had played a bit of both Final Fantasy IV and VI at one of my friend’s houses, but it was not only in the middle of the game, but I was never properly introduced to how an RPG worked. Needless to say, it didn’t catch me at that time. (I obviously played them later once I got into RPGs and loved them) I knew that I had to get the game Final Fantasy VII for Christmas that year based solely on the marketing campaign. Squaresoft apparently took out articles in Playboy, Rolling Stone, USA Today and other big periodicals to hype the game, something that was unheard of at the time. The result: RPGs took off in America and tons of people who had never properly played one of the games (myself included) latched onto the franchise.
Namco-Bandai seems to take a peculiar slant with their games in the West, one that involves trying to keep the releases as quiet as possible, then complaining when people don’t rush out to buy their games in droves. Take a game like Klonoa for instance. Despite the franchise's previous cult popularity on both the original Playstation and the Gameboy Advance, this remake for the Wii was seemingly a complete afterthought by the company as a whole. The result was 100k in sales, not bad for a budget game, but I wonder what a bit of advertisement could have done. I’m sure everybody has heard the old saying “you have to spend money to make money”, even those at Namco-Bandai.
There you have it! What are some things you think Namco-Bandai should do?
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Namco-Bandai should read this.
i think another thing to mention are the chosen Platforms. Vesperia is 360 only to us, Graces will be PS3 exclusive. why not throwing Vesperia out for both PS3/360, and Graces for both PS3 and Wii? they shoot themselfes in the foot by doing stupid limitations like this.
cosigned. I'm still waiting for ToV ps3. IDK why they'd chose to bring over a wii port (ToGF) and not a 360 port that was done long ago
Stop making whiny characters.
They can release tales of graces for wii in north america is what they can do.
if they cant/wont put their games on the ps3 or wii, i cant/wont play their games. is pretty simple for me
They need to also stop alienating parts of their already diminished fanbase. With Tales of Graces F, they should go multi-platform. Don't forget that not only was Tales of Graces for the Wii originally, but that for two years you cannot say that there wasn't a part of the "50,000" requests that didn't come from Nintendo owners who wanted the game as well.
However, given the current state of market, it would be in Namco's best interest to release the game, Tales of Graces F, as multi-platform title. They will not get too much in the way of help on the PS3 from Sony. And while they could/would get help from Nintendo if they asked and gave them an exclusive, you would still have fans angry for not getting it on the PS3. Namco's shot themselves in the foot with this one. The best way for them to keep fans and possibly expand the franchise back to or even beyond Tales of Symphonia sales would be to go multi-platform with Tales of Graces F. And even with Tales of Xillia, that game should be multi-platform in the West, the old X360/PS3 combo.
Tales of Symphonia 2 (Dawn of the New World) for Wii got almost the sales of Vesperia in US. Despite of the fact that ToS2 has a much lower budget und much lower review scores and almost no hype.
Bring Graces to the Wii in US and europe! There you would make profit. A PS3-only version would end in another sales disaster.
Some of this is true, some isnt
"Aside from a lot of their Japanese studios doing very poorly (The Tales studio notably)"
This isnt true. Namco bandai has never been more successful in game dev than this one with a megaton of rpg releases
Some of this is true, some isnt
"Aside from a lot of their Japanese studios doing very poorly (The Tales studio notably)"
This isnt true. Namco bandai has never been more successful in game dev than this one with a megaton of rpg releases
i just started playing vesperia today. my first tales of game. it looks awesome love the art direction they took with it . it reminds me a lot windwaker. .i agree they should bring more games over
NAIL ON THE F** HEAD!!! agree with everything on this article!!
I got goosebumps from the FFVII trailer ^^'
About localisation, a simple solution would be :
- Propose through DD with PSN/XBLA in japanese
- Find a decent team for localisation
- Give (or sell if Namco Bandai's reps want their heads on spike in my garden) as an update to the game the localisation file in whatever language.
- Collect money, give love to fans, dominate the world.
i agree with those.
Bandai Namco just don't know how to do business in the west.
there are tons of JRPG fans out there that like the Tales series more than the FF series, but Namco don't know how to advertise their Tales game.
i for one love the Tales series betetr because the Tales series have the better combat system and way more fun, but i buy FF instead because i don't know when a Tales game will come out, but i know when a FF game will come out.
I just want to know whose fault it is this generation that so many jRPGs get released on the Xbox360, and so few on the PS3....
Is the Xbox handing over tons of money to these publishers to get the games exclusive to their console, knowing that the huge amount of the playstation fanbase loves jrpgs (thinking of stealing them over to their system) OR has Sony just dropped the ball so freaking hard that these companies would rather release their games for microsoft, knowing (the HAVE to know) full well that they would sell better on the playstation 3.
Final Fantasy XIII sold a HELL of a lot more copies for the PS3 than the 360, despite having a much smaller install base here in the US, yet Namco doesn't think Vesperia would do well here? despite all the fans SCREAMING for it?! I believe the success of demons souls is due IN PART (because it is a freaking amazing game, and does deserve its sales) to the fact that the PS3 users are pretty damn starved for RPG's, so that the very first decent thing to show up, we ate alive.
I completely agree with this article, Namco-Bandai are COMPLETELY out of touch with the western market, and I bet you when they release these Tales games over here, they will be very happy with the results (they would be even happier if they effing advertised them first)
i wonder why they should loose money @neckbear. they dont. in the worst (most probably) case, theyll only get some peanuts out of Vesperia, but those Nuts will be enough to make at least a very slight profit. If not, they are doing it wrong.
@Mad55
Ignoring the grammatical flaws I commited in that post of mine (dear god, that's what lack of sleep does to people...), I believe what I posted is mostly correct- at least in those cases where there's a tangible proof of it.
Everything else is pure speculation, and thus, I cannot comment on the actual validity of those assumptions.
@neckbear alot of what you stated sounds all wrong and stuff lol im going with Stephens article made alot of sense.
I do not work for Namco Bandai, nor I honestly care about these guys, but I will reply to every single one of the points you make, disagree or agree with you, and if I disagree, then I'll try to prove you wrong.
Let's go:
"Brand recognition"
That is a very hard thing to do with simple DVD releases and whatnot, as you suggest. Brand recognition comes from, mostly, word-of-mouth and great releases. If a game's good, chances are people will investigate about it and thus, recognize the IP the next time they're in the store or hear an announcement.
Problem with this, as I said, is that Tales games are usually very niche- not many people go close to them, for various reasons, and honestly don't really care. This has changed a little with the internet buzz we have seen, however, it hasn't grown too much yet.
If there are continous releases, however, chances are that sooner or later more people will recognize "Tales" games.
"Stop making excuses and shifting blame"
In this point, you say that they simply say "that the games do not sell because they're niche".
While there are companies that survive off niche titles, those are smaller companies that invest less in their products, and usually have to cut corners with their releases because of the limited budget.
Moreover, Namco Bandai is one of the big guys. 100k-units sales don't really go well with 'em, even when the franchise has potential.
"Stop blaming the West for your company’s bad ills"
You bein' kinda silly wih this point. They simply mentioned that overseas releases haven't worked with them, and thus, shifted their focus to what has more chances of makin' off a profit.
...Seriously, dude.
"Take your localizations seriously"
I actually thought the Vesperia localization was top-notch, with a great cast of voice actors and good translations.
They certainly have gotten better in this regard.
"Know your audience"
This is seriously one of Namco Bandai's main flaws. They don't know wich group cater to.
As you said, Tales games have a big chance of bein' big between weaboos n' stuff, so yeah, they should assist to more comic-cons and anime cons to market their games.
"Make peace with Fans"
Problem is, those fans are insufferable assholes that want every single Japanese release overseas, not knowing Namco Bandai is a business. Better yet, they're (probably) autistic assholes that do nothing but complain EVEN when a game gets released.
I honestly can't blame 'em, their fans are complete rabid imbeciles, and if they truly listened to them, as I said before in another page, their company would sink faster than the Titanic.
"Stop choosing the wrong games to bring over"
I somewhat agree, although they're free to do whatever they want.
"Stop doing irregular releases"
Agreed. However, about Vesperia for PS3, the PS3 version of Eternal Sonata proved unsuccessful. Thus, they made the descision to NOT bring Vesperia for PS3, as they would lose some serious cash if they did.
That's the reason behind that, or so I heard.
"Work With Smaller companies"
Thing with companies is than they can't be best-buddies-forever, even if they can, thanks to legal issues and capitalism.
It would be a step up to see Namco Bandai working with fans and their non-profitable translations, however. They already did it for the Demon's Souls guide included in the EU release of the game, they should get closer to the Tales fanbase, too.
"Advertise your damn games!"
Advertising costs money. There's no guarantee than, for a niche series like Tales, advertising it would pay off.
However, they should push their games more into the American market. They should use the magic of the internet, as companies like Atlus or NIS America do. Hell, it proved successful even for an indie game like Super Meat Boy.
That's all, and hopefully you see why I replied to all your points. All I can say, look at things more objectively.
good article i agree lol we should link this to their facebook page.
Though, they have nearly always release their big title over here. Tales of Xilia will surely be release in the west too. Tales of vesperia was too. The tales on PS1/PS2 was mostly release here too. This is a non issue in my opinion.
I think I've done at least ten "How to Fix Tales Lists in the West", so I'll just add an important point.
Along with advertisement, they need to think of a new story. For lord's sake, as much as I love hearing about "the rising monster population" in every single Tales games besides Symphonia, try something new. Is it sad that the only good plot twist I can think of in a Tales game is Luke's "relationship" to Asch?
Good Article. I completely agree with all the points above.
What has always baffled me is that the first thing I USED to think about when I heard the name Bandai was Anime and Namco was gaming. Now, the first thoughts that come to mind are "they hate money" It is completely mind boggling how they run their business.
How do you add one of the best dubbing companies in the anime business (Bandai) to a great gaming company (in the old Namco) and get SHITTY localization efforts? Spread your resources around! Get those actors to do double projects, its really not that hard (they do some of this, but they should be doing a great deal more of it)
I go to 3 Anime conventions a year, and with Bandai already being at those conventions...why isnt the gaming side as well? They "might" have a few things on tap each year, but they could go much deeper on it. Hell have a panel! What an idea. Those conventions are always packed and a good deal of the people who go actually BUY things!
ive never been a fan of the tale series but did have one of the games on gamecube (symphonia i think). i didnt finish it but it was enjoyable at the time. My advice to the developers would be to stop releasing so many tales games, when i see so many titles being released all across many platforms i stop paying attention because i jus assume to be quick cash-ins. Instead put more focus on single title which can stand head to head with the best RPGs out there. when a tales game is announced it should be an event like how final fatasy used to be. i Kno graphics arn't everything but the latest games released on the HD consoles barely touch the surface of the consoles powers, poor teztures and static animation are everywhere. look to naruto ninja storm to see where the games should be by now. Also cinematically the games seem to lack quality. i played a demo for the 1 on xbox360 and the dialouge was quite bad and scale wasnt conveyed well because of the static camera position during in game cutscenes and miniture characters model. As a wole they should try harder to make the game resemble the animated cutscenes and that is possible on the Xbox360 and ps3
Thanks you for this article. Hopefully someone at Namco-Bandai will read it and help them realize their stupidity over the years.
You know what I have quit on Tales games !
I played Eternia, Symphonia and Abyss!
Only to find that a majority of the tales games were only in Japan, what am I supposed to do ?
Wait ==???
No way!! to me if the series doesn't care about me so why should I care about it?
totally agreed @article, and @Eandia.
Namdai is just doing it wrong. period. they could advertise games without paying for it by releasing Tons of trailers, but even that wasnt done that much for Vesperia. And yes (Eandia) PS3 was always the Mainchoice for RPGers, thanks to Final Fantasy. And still, look at the FF Sales. i think the same could (would? i mean, in japan, Vesperia sold 400k on PS3 alone.) happen with Vesperia in the US. (Not in that scale and ammount of course. xP)
BUT did you guys notice the Vesperia Reprint? happened Mid 2010.. theyve made another row of 360 Copies, but they did not Copy and paste (they HAVE the english Voiceovers already recorded for the additional PS3 Content) the Game to the PS3!.. i mean, that would have been low work when they restart the procedure in general. i kinda think they have a Deal wih MS regarding the west.. or at least i hope so for their rep's sake. (y'know, then they would have no choice and all)
I shared the articule in Tales Series Fan page.
Vey goods points.
Tales of Vesperia did about 0.6 mil ww, so i would expect releasing Graces F on the PS3 would allow it to get to about 1mil ww. if they make it exclusive then they could get a lot of hype from sites and magazines, like Demon's Souls became a sleeper hit.
thats all i think they need, a good degree of exposure will ensure it becomes a cult classic, although from the article i dont think the sales of something like FF13 would be possible with this first installment, but maybe with a second installment. and of course releasing in Europe is important as well i think.
Simply add zombies to the game.
Damn straight, they need to advertise their games in some way or form if they're going to get public recognition, that and a regular release schedule is the key to getting back on top or...middle anyway. They need the public eye to notice their efforts and one way of doing that in the games are refinement of gameplay which in my opinion they have been doing over the last few installments, alot of improvements actually but of course no one knows that because the games never set sail outside the motherland.
They are good games but the company also needs to know when to release the titles as not to compete with juggernauts they should've never been near to begin with, Namdai said that why vesperia was such a nail in the coffin was because the response to it in the west was so low they were taken off guard and were too afraid to release anything again, I dont remember what big names were being released at the time but im willing to bet that it got crushed in the shadow of much bigger titles, you know and the no advertising thing.
Not to go on a rant here but, platforms are also a key concern: grats on choosing the ps3, finally! the 360 was at release never the holy land of all rpgs and while many were released for the system, the audience clearly didnt want it, that and the 360s abysmal "success" in the east really says something for vesperias overall worldwide reception i think.
And while the wii might have an audience they have never had sales success outside 1st party supported games so that was dead in water before it got off the ground, harsch as it might sound but the numbers dont lie either.
Thanks for staying with the whole comment if you have, ill probably end up buying graces and abyss for 3ds in the west even though ive played the japanese versions, there is only so much we can do through our wallets but to save this, beloved franchise by many im sure, namdai is going to have to take the initiative.
Buy a PS3.
Tales of Vesperia (better game)
Tales of Graces F - it's coming to the west, better game
Tales of Xillia (exclusiv PS3)
The PS3 is the best console for tales of-fans.
