Final Fantasy XIII Feedback Came "Too Late" - News

JRPGS on Playstation wasn't linear, just this and last gen. Better graphics doesn't always mean a better game. FFVII would take them like 10 years to recreate if they made similar to FFXIII.

Most JRPG's are open world compared to FFXIII which is, by far, the most linear rpg I have ever played. And I've played and loved almost all of the other Final Fantasies. FFXIII is sooo linear that it is almost on rails so it isn't right that he's generalizing it as a normal linear JRPG. FFXIII sucked.

after reading some of the comments one thing that always come up is that mash X and thats it!!!well for guys who hate to mash X always had the option of not using auto.if one wants to criticise he better come up with some logical criticism!

It was a good game just not a Final Fantasy.

The truth behind this game has always, most likely, been that its core design was changed two or three times over the course of 6 years and combined with Square's sluggish, inefficient production abilities, well, it was kind of doomed. But Final Fantasy is their Titanic so the captain had to go down with the ship.

I gathered from various commentary that they basically, at some point, hit the panic button and assembled a very linear and simplistic game out of the bones of many world areas that had been constructed. Originally, the game at that point was /incredibly/ simplistic. The concept of paradigm shifting hadn't even been created. That version of the game lived up to the image that you just mash X to proceed through each battle. Paradigm shifting was added because someone on the team realized the player had to feel as if he was doing at least something.

In the end it might have been okay if not for the horrifyingly bad story. The game world is deep with a ton of work put into its lore; it's interesting and original. The basic framework of the story in the game is also good, but instead, the scenario writer chose to sell the game to emo Japanese teenagers. So the game wastes half its time on endless flashbacks, making much adieu about nothing (the fireworks beach party scene and everybody's lives being entangled). Most of the interesting plot is merely a footnote in the log files.

In the end, FFXIII is a poster child for its era of game development; bloated, years out of date before it releases, over budget, wasting the time and careers of hundreds of artists and designers, and targeted at a stereotypical demographic of teenage, shut-in game addicts. No hope it'd ever really sell enough to make back the true dimensions of its investment.

Hopefully we'll never see another of its kind.

well one things for sure final fantasy aint getting any smaller every time theres new about it plently of replys and debate comes fling in all over the net more than any other game good thing though hope they keep bringing them out

Oh please... Hope doesn't even act the way for a boy his age. He witness his mother died before his own eyes. What would a young boy his age do in real life if that happen? How would he understand such complicated things that is going on in the game? It just seems unreal and scripted.

the characters are not that bad, but the crappy story really does not help there case. and the gameplay dont help either. Lighing was alright but you can have a strong female lead and not make here a bitch most of the game. Look at Aqua from KH even though her voice acting was meh. I actually like Snow, Fang is cool. Sazh guns are cool. Vanille dont know where she supposed to be from. Hope im meh on. I was playing Grandia for the first time the other day and was shocked at how much better the game is than FF13. IMHO keep the JRPG stuff but give us the freedom of WRPGs that would be perfect

The problem isn't jRPGs. It's the fact that it was linear - exploration wise - compared to most jRPGs. jRPG fans don't mind linear storylines as much as linear gameplay and exploration.

They just need to get the handbook on how they did Final Fantasy IX and before.

Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes when they make FFXV, but judging from FFXIV (and FFXI), I'm not sure about that.

As it stands, Valkyria Chronicles, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, and Star Ocean are the best JRPG's this generation so far.

@darth
Lightning was a bitch WAY before she became a l'cie you can see her being a big bitch in all the flashbacks yet the game failed to explain why she was that way, the characters had such a little backstory (if any) that I didn't really care what happends to them because I really don't know them. Sazh was the best character, a single father with a mission to save his only son, Sazh had his own personality and reacted like a human being against the dangers the band encounter he felt fear and hesitation but still gave his best because he didn't want to leave his son alone. Snow on the other hand just keeps repeating how much of a hero he is while Hope falls to the ground whine and moan (they both repet that a dozen times). Could you describe Hope without telling how he looks or what role he has? The more words mean the more deepest (Snake for example would take pages).

The characters never really know what they should do, should they save Cocoon or destroy it? Its okay to have ambiguity but the characters NEVER EVER know what they should do to save Cocoon even until the end of the game all they know is that if they kill Orphan Cocoon will be destroyed and even knowing that they still kill Orphan and then hope that a miracle happends. Thats terrible story telling.

Square seems to be the dumber half of the Square/Enix relationship lately. It isn't turned based battles that people don't like; see Pokemon. It also isn't linearity that people don't like; most western games are linear too. It is the fact that there isn't really isn't anything to do in the game except fight the next battle ahead of you, and keep doing that for most of the game, then getting to a place that's open up, but has NO towns or civilization.

Pokemon is popular in the west and Japan; Dragon Quest is more similar to Pokemon, and could probably be more popular in the west with better marketing (but hey, 9 is already ahead of where Final Fantasy III and Chrono Trigger were in their time; more people bought 8, but it wasn't for the game, but for the FF12 demo).

Square needs to go back and do what made them great, games in the style of FF6, 7, and 8. FF13 was Square trying to make a western game (don't make excuses now and say it was trying to make a Japanese game after already stating the opposite). Focus more on a good game than a game with highly detailed graphics. While the highly detailed graphics are nice, if the game sucks because of limitations surrounding expensive art-work/cutscenes which were already made, then it isn't worth it.

I still need to get this game some day.

@teo

Vegeta's left eyebrow has more character than the whole FF xiii crew combined ...

@darth
Ok ok ok ... I agree Hope is the deepest character in FF xiii. But his character and development were still weak. His couldn't even hold a candle to ff ix's Quina character. What's that say about everyone else in FF xiii?

@Boutros

Hope is the most well developed

But that doesn't mean he is the best though.

Fang is the least well developed character in FFXIII....but she's still my 2nd fav in the game.

I thought the game is awesome, and I'm one who knows such things.

You know what, as much as I loved Lightning, I have to agree with Teo. Hope is the deepest!

@Teo

Solid snake is an extremely well developed character.

In fact especially in MGS4 where you see his "real side"....his interactions WITH people face to face, especially with Sunny.

There is no Hollywood stuff there.

@guy with macho muscled Vegeta

Oh wait that explains everything but I'll say it anyways. Hope was the most developed character in FFXIII.

P.S I still hate what they did to FFXIII

I can't really think of better developed video game characters than the FFXIII cast other than Nathan Drake. Especially in JRPGs.

@Hatmoza

You have time and again shown your incapability to accept any other opinions apart from your own (not just in this situation), if saying I'm in denial helps you sleep better at night so be it.

You can all the characters empty shells as much as you want, but they weren't empty to me. You can say you can't predict the story, yet I was going through the game enjoying and predicting what could happen next.
you can say you didn't enjoy the game, but as this whole wall of discussion shows, many many people enjoyed the game.

The story made perfect sense up till the 15 hour mark, in fact too much sense and that is one of the few things I don't like about this game....but you think the story is confusing until 15 hours in...okay.

I think an important lesson you should learn from this is people have different opinions.

I'm sorry but anyone criticizing character development in FFXIII must have an IQ below 100. Besides the corny dialogue, which is normal in Japanese culture (yes if you play a Japanese game or see a movie that is not corny, it's because it is influenced by western culture). FFXIII has some of the most in depth character development in video game history. Even Solid Snake should be ashamed with all his typical Hollywood antics.

*15-20 hours...if it ever makes sense.

My android fails at text input

So basically, I agree that its confusing. Nothing makes sense until 15-20...if out ever makes sense.

@datrh
a story is supposed to gradually develope, all xiii did was hide the story, then reveal. Characters know whats going on and the player is kept in dark. Thats not fun. You cant even predict, get involved, or enjoy anything thats going on. Its like a cruel joke. Like a group of friends laughing and enjoying something and refuse to share the joy.

You can justify how great hope is however you want, whatever makes you sleep better at night. Bottom line,Hope and everyone else in xiii are empty shells
You are in denial my friend :D

@Darth, very good and right on description.

@Rafux

The point is there is confusion, you have no goal because your at a big predicament.

You can die and turn into a monster....or die and turn into a crystal. For the latter you need to destroy your own country. There had to be confusion, because the characters could do nothing else than hope for a miracle. It was a die if you do, die if you don't situation. and in all this time you are a ticking time bomb......thats the reason the characters were frustrated, who wouldn't be?

I loved to see Lightning being a bitch to take out her frustration on others.....then it was amazing to see her and hope turn that frustration into an aim and bond together in Chapter 5. after that Lightning wasn't a bitch.

Its easy to call someone a bitch, but if you try to figure out what kind of intense pressure and mental chaos the characters must have been going through, its not hard. Remember everyone has a different way of dealing with pressures they face......Sazh dealt with it by being funny on purpose all the time, Snow by living in denial, Hope by actually showing emotion, Lightning by taking out her anger on everyone.

There is nothing difficult to understand here, if you think just a little its easy to understand.

Are they fkn stupid??? How many fkn times have they ignored the cries for a FF7 remake from the west? SE are idiots I tell you.

I don't want to write a whole article here besides a lot of other people has done that already so I can't explain everything that was wrong with the characters, I got to the final boss battle againts Orphan but I didn't beat him because a friend offer me 40$ for the game and I accepted inmmediately, I just watched the ending on youtube.

Why was Lighting such a bitch?

Its still no reason to make a dozen cut scenes about Hope crying and falling to the ground, one would be enough, Vanille was so annoying and by the way whats up with the story in this game? You never know whats is your goal, the band just keep waiting for a miracle or something.

@Rafux

Whats terrible is your definition of the characters, you mention one thing each of the character does and forget anything else they do. In fact if thats what you say about Hope I have a hard time believing you even played the game past Chapter 6, or even 5.....because if you played those parts you'd know Lightning acts very nicely to Hope, not like a bitch.

hope developed the most as a character in the game.

If Hope didn't cry near the start of the game, I'd be incredibly suspicious, I know 90% of son's would cry if their mother did.

And you don't even mention the real bad character in FFXIII, Vanille.

phail Rafux!

@boutros

Darth Gregarious is on his way to silence Rafux.

Hope isn't as bad as he looks. One must still remember he *SPOILERS" lost him mother at the beginning of the game. It's a good enough reason for him to cry.

But you're so right about Fang. Terrible, terrible.

You said something bad about Lightning. darth, let's get him.

FFXIII characters were TERRIBLE, except Sazh. I hated Snow calling himself a hero every 10 minutes, Hope falling to the ground crying like a girl and Lighting was a bitch to everybody for no good reason there never was a flashback or anything that explained Lighting bitching attitude

The reason why I hate towns is because I feel the need to talk to everyone (lol) and look for treasures in every corner and it takes so much time.

WKC = worse towns ever.

But I don't remember a lot of towns in FFX.

Then again I played the game 8 years ago :P

You don't remember the cactaur, chocobo, monster hunting, battle arena (I loved that), Jecht spheres, Master weapon gathering side-quests?

And trust me, your the minority if you don't like towns. A lot of gamers can get bored if they're forced to pound through the story without any breaks, in jrpgs.

However, I find it ironic that you hate towns yet consider FFX to be the best game ever. My argument is done when people start to contradict themselves.

Good day sir :P

@hatmoza

I agree with the best battle system ever.
I hate towns.
Blitzball was indeed amazing.
I don't remember side-quests in FFX.
FFXIII's story was good as well. Not as good though.
FFXIII characters > FFX characters

But still, I don't think the lack of towns and mini-games made FFXIII a bad game.

heh, FFX has a lot more to offer than every other game that's come out in the last 10 years (In my opnion ofcourse).It's my favorite game of all time...

and it was linear and this was linear, but I loved the music/battlesystem/art style. More than FFX. The story and characters not in the party was lacking. But they had good concepts they just didn't execute it as well as they should have... still, great game imo.

[cut/]

FFXIII failed miserably in doing any of that. It failed in making it fun.

X was an awesome game, and it's a shame that a 10 year old FF has (ALOT)more to offer than a FF game that came out 10 years later.

@Boutros.

X had an awesome turn-base battle system, probably one of the best
X had towns
X had awesome mini-games
X had hooking side-quests
X had a great story
X had cool, likable characters

All games are linear, it's simple stuff like what I posted above that make even the most linear games more involving, interactive,. And most important, give an illusion of exploration.

@ryuzaki

Yeah LIGHTNING's one of the best characters ever

If they make FFXIII-2 hopefully it revolves round her (not serah or snow)

@Boutros

MGS4 is the best game ever.

I'm annoyed. They talk about linearity like it's a bad thing. I love linear games and FFXIII was awesome. Plus people seem to forget that FFX (the best game ever) is just as linear as FFXIII.

The game was terribly linear in the beggining and it felt empty. Even its great aspects couldnt save it from being boring at many parts. @ryuzaki57 the Cie'th side quest isnt hooking at all if you have played FFXII and hunted some monsters there...

Thats Too Bad, Maybe if they would have listened I would have enjoyed it

FFXIII is still well above your average JRPG. The battle system rocks, the Cie'th side quest is really hooking and Lightning is one of the best characters in video game history. I really hope they can make a FFXIII-2!

The whole game was just terrible. Not only the linearity, but the battle system and no towns killed me. This game bored the crap out of almost everyone I know. "Oh play til Chp 10 when it opens up". The game never opens up, and if it did, you don't open it up at the end of the game.

I sound like a broken record, I know. But the linearity wouldn't have been so bad if there were towns, a place to take a break, a place to revisit, a place that provided interactions, sub-missions, mysterious, comedy relief, games, side-quests. etc

Square Enix has lost touch.

FFXIII was outstanding, but it could have been much better. and screw you square, feedback? too late? im sure they have 3 Monkeys kept in a room, with a closed theatre in it, and of course the Monkeys had to figure out how to get fuggin in there.

FFXIII was outstanding, but it could have been much better. and screw you square, feedback? too late? im sure they have 3 Monkeys kept in a room, with a closed theatre in it, and of course the Monkeys had to figure out how to get fuggin in there.

i liked the game myself, especially the battle system , i think the issue isn't about the linearity at all , its about the weird storyline, it didn't capture the deep storyline and characters that is what people like in FFXIII, it felt a bit on the shallow side.

FFXIII is an excellent game square. Its a big success in the west but not in Japan.

Worry about why FFXIII is the lowest selling FF since the SNES in Japan, not about the West where it will end up the 3rd best selling FF of all time.

And like others said FFXIV is the thing you should be worried about right now! Fix the game by March and you might have a hit on your hands on the PS3 at least!!

The problem is that they look beyond the fanbase at all. Why do they continue to alienate the EXISTING large fanbase. I understand the want to expand and earn big piles of money, but not at the expense of losing those who got you here.

Second, this whole "what the West wants" thing is bologna. The was, and is still, a large pool of people who like traditional JRPGs. And plenty of us would rather have them on our consoles than on tiny handheld screens. Can't wait until the games industry wakes back up from this dream and comes back to reality. Then I can finally get back to playing the games I love instead of playing all of this "Western friendly" filler that I'm stuck with in the mean time.

FF XIII is a success. I also highly enjoyed it. Now fix FF XIV you damn fools!

Well, hopefully this is a lesson they'll carry forward into Versus XIII.

Final Fantasy XIII isn't the game, that you should be worrying about at the moment, Square...