NPD are concerned about VGChartz

by Brett Walton, posted on 14 June 2007 / 1,545 Views

I'd like to let you all in on some hugely unprofessional and personal emails we have been receiving from none other than David Riley, NPD senior manager.

David clearly appears to be concerned about what we are doing at VG Chartz and takes every opportunity possible to try to belittle us.

An email sent just today:

K.O.,
I'm looking at prelims for the month and am happy to see that you're way off the NPD estimations for the month. I would expect you not to change your "article" (because god knows I'm keeping a copy of your current post), and to provide your readers with the NPD's actuals vs. your current estimations.


Keep on working on that fantastic formula of yours. At this rate, I think you'll

get there sometime before 2030.

Son, you are not close to our data. 10%, 15% and 20% differences are not close. And f we're only rep'ing 60% of the true market, why even mention us? Why not go with our own numbers as gospel? The way I see it, if you want to position your data as "data", at least have the bollocks to stand on your own two legs. 10-15% is pretty darn close if you're a fan, but not if you're in the business.

Even taking Canada AND Mexico into account, you're off by 10% - 13%. That's unacceptable.

ends

 

I have said many times that our figures are of a reasonable accuracy and if you want official figures then pay for and use NPD.


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princess (on 19 February 2009)

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YourBiologicaldaddy (on 22 June 2007)

DKII says: Try to react with a little maturity guys. :P yeah lets be professional like a 24 year old mod...


tiachopvutru (on 21 June 2007)

Hello to you too, Jasmine


DonWii (on 21 June 2007)

Hello Jasmine.


Nytorious (on 21 June 2007)

@ Jasmine He switched between people in his rant. Please learn how to use the internet.


Jasmine (on 20 June 2007)

Are you saying Im David Riley? I hate to break it to you but Im not. Can anyone say paranoia? I am not a lawyer but misrepresenting somebody can be bad for business. But you represent vgchartz?


TheBigFatJ (on 20 June 2007)

I think we can stop the charade, David. We're not children here. [quote]God I hate dragging this out but some of you guys say some of the funniest things. A couple of you dorks are saying nasty things to me. This is the first user group I've spent time on where the users actually gets vicious. stop the hate. i only think it's important for us to have an open mind here.[/quote] Haven't used the Internet much? You do realize that no one is directly insulting you, as you have with us. We're trying to be a little more professional than that. It seems to be a theme ;) [quote]There are other sites out there like nextgenwars and thesimexchange.com who do the same thing as vgchartz so which is the most reliable?[/quote] I'm not familiar with every site, but those do not do "the same thing as VGChartz." And the difference isn't even subtle: nexgenwars generates numbers and supplements them with Microsoft's statements of what they shipped, while counting the 'sold' statements from Sony and Nintendo. VGChartz is the only one I'm aware of actually gathering real data directly from retailers. Distinctions like that may be hard for you, but to me they're important. It is usually a good idea to try to be accurate. [quote]The way I see it the publishers are held accountable by wall street banks so if vgc can convince wall street that its numbers are reliable than vgc will be able to capture the indistrys attention. Call Goldman Sacks and Bank of America and sell them on it![/quote] Not necessary. Let's assume, for a second, that VGChartz wants to take business away from you. As Nintendo has shown with this console war, you don't have to play to the highest end of the market to attain a lion's share of sales. And as I've said before, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there are many more who want the numbers than simply publishers. Many publishers are publically traded, after all. David, VGChartz isn't going away anytime soon. As you've made to abundantly clear, you don't see VGChartz as competition to NPD anytime soon. So rather than sending flames to people performing a nice service for others -- a service which is no threat to you by your own word -- find something more positive to do.


Jasmine (on 20 June 2007)

God I hate dragging this out but some of you guys say some of the funniest things. A couple of you dorks are saying nasty things to me. This is the first user group I've spent time on where the users actually gets vicious. stop the hate. i only think it's important for us to have an open mind here. marc, you bring up good points but who can say who is corrupt and who isnt? There are other sites out there like nextgenwars and thesimexchange.com who do the same thing as vgchartz so which is the most reliable? vgchartz is cool to navigate but when I compare vgc to simex it looks like simex produces better results and they let people play wall street tycoon, and that's cool. the benefit to vgc is that it has great cover art and is easy to navigate. The way I see it the publishers are held accountable by wall street banks so if vgc can convince wall street that its numbers are reliable than vgc will be able to capture the indistrys attention. Call Goldman Sacks and Bank of America and sell them on it!


anthonishing (on 19 June 2007)

Wow. A top board guy would actually say things like that. BTW I actually used your numbers on my blog I just started. insidesportsgeek.wordpress.com. Thank you.


yellow15 (on 19 June 2007)

Is this the reason why we still haven't got the US weekly chart for this week?


Rob Feature (on 19 June 2007)

Aw, Benkenobi is trying too hard to be nice. This is really funny. I'm glad that the e-mail were posted.


TheBigFatJ (on 19 June 2007)

[quote]I just spent time researching NPD group and think there is a lot to think about before you go on saying that vgchartz has something that publishers want. They have been in business for close to 40 years and specialize in tracking sales. No offense to vgchartz but I think the industry relies on companys like NPD because of there long history.[/quote] Nothing publishers want? Free, weekly estimates that are reasonably accurate. Sure, they're not about to supplant the NPD for accuracy anytime soon but for some purposes high accuracy isn't necessary. Look at analysts -- they make money making projections much more accurate than those provided by VGChartz. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that more groups that publishers would love the data, even if it is only reasonably accurate. "[We've been] in business for close to 40 years" is irrelevant, Jasmine. If someone can jump in an provide a supplementary service, many of those seeking the service may not care for how long it has been provided. VGChartz jumped in with no experience, but they're building experience at a rapid pace and providing an awesome service for fans an a service that continues to improve, has advantages over and compliments the NPD service for non-subscribers NPD is being quoted because NPD is currently the accepted benchmark for these figures. If the NPD doesn't like it, it is their problem. Not VGChartz' problem.


Jasmine (on 19 June 2007)

As I read through these responses it's easy to see the facts versus the nonsense. Somebody above said there are two sides to each story so let's hear NPDs story if they are interested to tell it. Or maybe the site owner isn't telling the entire story. I mean this is a forum so anybody can say anything about anyone and get away with it. What sparked Rileys anger? I just spent time researching NPD group and think there is a lot to think about before you go on saying that vgchartz has something that publishers want. They have been in business for close to 40 years and specialize in tracking sales. No offense to vgchartz but I think the industry relies on companys like NPD because of there long history. Precision is key, not wild guesses. You cannot jump into this with no experience and expect it to have an impact. This is a fan site, nothing more, nothin less. And if vgchartz wants to make a name for itsely why capitolize on NPDs name? Aha - maybe that is why Riley was pissed? Get Riley on here. Enquiring eyes want to read!


TheBigFatJ (on 19 June 2007)

[quote] BigFatJerk, yes, I think you're right. It is a big conspiracy. All companies like this should be exposed for giving out incorrect information that nobody in the industry can verify through their own shipment and sell thru numbers. I bet you that companies like NPD toss and turn every night wondering if they will be exposed for making up these numbers month after month. I bet they use tarot cards and ouija boards to come up with them.[/quote] I'm not suggesting they're doing something seedy, just that it makes sense to have more than one source of information. It is foolish to simply assume their data is accurate and there's nothing wrong with checking it or reproducing it. If VGChartz is doing what NPD does, we can reasonably compare numbers to a certain extent. If publishers look at the numbers and begin to suspect that VGChartz is more accurate or that they prefer weekly numbers, then the NPD's service becomes less valuable because they're not the only game in town and someone else offers something more desirable. At any rate, it doesn't make sense for ioi to be too bothered by the NPD insulting him or making insinuations about how limited his success ever will be. Jasmine, I think you could agree that if David Riley wasn't peeing in his panties about VGChartz, he wouldn't waste time sending them insulting email.


Jasmine (on 19 June 2007)

After reading all of the threads I'm not sure of the value beyond Joe Surfer but my first thought before going into any of the threads was that this was an NPD owned site. I quickly realized just how wrong I was but Mr(s) site owner, why do you give NPD so much attention? You might want to reconsider doing this because it makes you look like you have double standards. BigFatJerk, yes, I think you're right. It is a big conspiracy. All companies like this should be exposed for giving out incorrect information that nobody in the industry can verify through their own shipment and sell thru numbers. I bet you that companies like NPD toss and turn every night wondering if they will be exposed for making up these numbers month after month. I bet they use tarot cards and ouija boards to come up with them.


TheBigFatJ (on 18 June 2007)

ioi: Let's say you didn't get his mail. How would your life be affected by what he thinks if you didn't know about it? Would he have a legal basis with which to attack you? Nope. He's scared of you for some reason or another, possibly because he's afraid that you'll expose his numbers as inaccurate. Does the NPD provide a way to verify their numbers beyond what console manufacturers claim they ship? There may be political reasons that he's freaking out or perhaps the NPD may not be as organized or as strong as people tend to assume. It certainly is interesting, in a few cases, when the NPD numbers very wildly from yours. Perhaps as you gather more data something interesting will be exposed.


WiiGirl76 (on 18 June 2007)

Pathetic bunch of people over there... but where's that NPD website or so, to be honest.. never heard of them :P See VGcharts already made more impression to me :D


Rath (on 16 June 2007)

@VGruler, the NPD stats that Ioi compares to are freely avaliable information and Ioi often says that NPD is far more accurate than his statistics. The reason VGchartz plays off NPD is because NPD is more accurate. VGchartz is merely a free fan-run site offering weekly stats.


Chubear (on 16 June 2007)

ioi says: Well as I say, it is probably unprofessional of me to post private emails here as well but I just want people to be aware of the bullying and total lack of professionalism that is going on behind the scenes. It is really starting to get on my nerves - why they won't just leave us to do what we do and continue doing what they do, I don't understand. I have always endorsed NPD and have always conceded that their figures are obviously far more accurate than ours, why keep attacking us? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, companies with great statues aren't really always carrry themselves professionally. That's just the iceing most of themlove showing to the general public but they're, a lot of the time, no different from the mentality of drug dealers. Hey, I'm in coporate cycles so this isn't so "OH GAWD, HE DID WHAT?" to me. I must say about your "Well as I say, it is probably unprofessional of me" statement that you must not flinch or doubt yourself too much. The fact that this was sent to you means you're doing something right and you probably don't even really know the full scope of it yet however, you should keep doing what you do but I'm afraid you can't be like your memebers on this forum any more. You'll have to look at things differently now and being naive will probably no longer be an option. As long as you remember a simple rule of be soft with soft people and be hard with hard people you'll be fine. Hey, this likely means big things for you in the future - either a buyout (cha-ching) or just more lucretive funding - but be ready for some erm... turbulance I think. Good on ya dude, I'm not a big fan of your forums (but I don't really need to be) but you've got it working and running and your stats are very welcome to most of the general gaming community too. Oh, please don't "sell out" either... the money may be good but...


vgruler rules (on 16 June 2007)

Since we don't know about the pre-existing relationship b/t IOI and Riley maybe we should scrutinize both camps. Riley's post only looks bad when put into IOIs context. Maybe Riley doesn't care what he posts on this site. Did his feedback come from his work email or personal email? How do we know it really came from him because I am not seeing any response from him yet. On the other hand, maybe what IOI is saying is not accurate? There are always two sides to every story. And I know that any marketing executive would have to answer to the powers that be if they sent a rant to somebody at the associate press but to this site? To help SmashBros, I think what SB is saying is that Riley was angry at how often VGChartz references NPD and how often VGChartz plays off NPD's success? Just look at the NPD threads on this site: NPDCanad, NPD vs. vgchartz, NPD is wrong again, NPD NPD NPD. I think NPD should start paying you for the free play because even what you are spewing here is better than not saying anythign at all. Who knows. Maybe this is some plan to build name recognition? Madison ave. PR firms do it all the time. What I want to know is if VGChartz is such a great source, why play off names like Pachter and NPD? Why not forget about industry know-it-alls and do your own spin? What VGChartz offers is free and does not have to be statistically sound so just keep doing what you do best.


Lafiel (on 16 June 2007)

@ SmashBros ) hmm.. in my view you act like a fanboy aswell (overprotective , quick to insult people with diferent opinions) , just from the other camp


EEPiccolo (on 16 June 2007)

SmashBros, what kind of sycophant are you that you think you're some expert in the industry and know more than absolutely every other person on this website, including ioi? You're not even addressing what ioi posted; you're just spouting talking points like any good sycophant would.


Rath (on 15 June 2007)

@Smashbros. The point is, even if this site was just making figures up David clearly has no right to act so unprofessionally. Hes a professional, Ioi is a amateur, why is he busy attacking what is a clearly less accurate and less influential fan site? Basically he should shut up and ignore VGchartz. Maybe be intrigued and look around. Certainly not attack it.


SmashBros (on 15 June 2007)

Man you fanboys are pathetic and the host of this site should grow up. I know Riley and he's always been great to me. I'll send him this link to make sure he's seen it. Maybe he's upset because you used to post their information? That's when I used to visit the site. Ah, the day when it was all NPD and Enterbrain info. on vgchartz but now, not so much. When you were called out on it, you deleted all references to NPD and the other firms and now declare they're all on the blocks thanks to your far from accurate figures? Puhlease. Normally I'd not be bothered to post a reply on a fanboy site but this is really sad. Until you know how this industry works I wouldn't be so quick to trash anybody.


daxiang12 (on 15 June 2007)

Go VGC Go. NPD are a bunch of lazy dones. They charged so much but can only provide a monthly stats two weeks late. Japan has media create. How hard is it really, to put up a weekly sales chart for video games? Before that happens, I will always read VGC.


Brokn68 (on 15 June 2007)

I agree with elprincipe, they're worrying about losing revenue. You're a threat, keep up the good work. as a new member to this site, have to say I'm glad I joined.


Tispower (on 15 June 2007)

Just ignore them. They shouldn't be doing this, it's totally unprofessional...


elprincipe (on 15 June 2007)

I agree with those who say they are worried, or at least that this particular individual is worried. Why else spend time and effort to attempt to squash a fansite? Their main worry is losing clients, and somehow your site is threatening to make that happen. There is no other reason for those kinds of messages. So keep up the good work and hopefully this unprofessional ass will be out of a job soon.


mrstickball (on 15 June 2007)

Really, in the end, NPD is most likely worried that some day, way in the future, VGChartz will be nearly (within 5%) accuracy of NPD. At that point, NPD Funland who tracks video game sales is kaput. Why pay $10,000 a month for something that's free? Keep going, ioi, we all believe in you. Don't allow yourself to be shutdown by any means. At some point, I wouldnt be suprised if NPD tried to sue you or something.


GamerGuide (on 15 June 2007)

maybe but im not sure. We are interested in weekly but not as much as you think. when it comes to publishers they know how many they ship and get a good read form retailers how their skus are selling each week so Im not so sure how much of a value there is to the industry for weekly reads on sales performance. Its the retailers who are bottlenecking this possibility. Im not 100% about this but some retailers dont want weekly numbers out there. Its great for marketers but weekly sales performance can be misleading and can hurt retailers ability to remain competitive if too much gets out there. The totla weekly number is interesting but not really a surprise to insiders. Retialers dont mind either but when researchers provide breakdowns on a per retailer basis which is how third party firms can break it down, than they are feardul of losing their edge. Maybe we will see an increase in demand for weekly as the new systems ramp up and it becomes more competitive but the games industry works like the box office industry in that we all know which titles will sell well out of the gate and which ones will not. What I find to be of most value is seeing performance over time months/years. It helps to better determine the types of titles and genre trends to consider for a platform like I said before, interesting site. its refreshing to have something other then nextgenwars and simxchange to look at when wanting to see how others are predicting performance. There are others in the wings so try to remain competitvie. To many of you guys out there will negate the novelty. The problem Im seeing is that you all are all over the place and it gives me a headache looking at so many different sites with so much conflicting information. This is why I think Riley got upset? Id try to work with NPD if I were you. Its better to have immediate access to results than to wait for reporters to post it. We would probably be the first to visit your site if you were faster to post so kiss and make up. I have spent to much time here and have to get to work. good luck.


OriGin (on 15 June 2007)

GamerGuide I agree with you on some points, which one of the big 3 do you know of that doesn't? Because I'm fairly certain there is one that wouldn't be saying that exactly but something along those lines. Of course the NPD is the official source, and a company cannot accept anything but the 'official' number from a data reporting agency, this then goes in turn to fund the finance sectors and their numbers etc etc HOWEVER, these companies use the main 'official' data sourcing agency for an eye on the competition and for a wider eye on the market place. The companies would have to be getting weekly reports from NPD with WEEKLY numbers of what is going on, it is just monthly that NPD release this public news. Another HOWEVER, these companies would also collect data and information from their distribution houses and from the 'major' retailers across the market (including Best Buy) and can generally have their own take on how accurate the NPD information is. If some of this information they collect internally was happening to turn out to be closer to VGChartz and not NPD's don't you think the companies would be having words to NPD about their accuracy for the price they are paying?


GamerGuide (on 15 June 2007)

I agree with Blip but not with OriGin. I know the Big 3 don't react this way to their research partners. Lets just say I know of at least one that doesnt :) virtually acurate is not how this industry works. If an industry representative relies on virtual accuracy they would be out of a job when executives see they are shorting channel performance and giving competitors an advantage. Whether or not we want to admit it NPD numbers are the industry standard. The market relies on them and the other trackers do to. Its neat to check iois numbers against the researchers numbers. If anything else he has the attention of NDP.


Blip (on 15 June 2007)

Over the 5 or 6 months I have been visiting this site, I have come to not care about the NPD numbers so much. I find this site accurate enough since no one knows the exact number. Until someone starts a Sound Scan type system for counting vg hardware and software, your numbers are just as good and we get the bonus of having them weekly and free (for which I thank you). I wouldn't even bother looking to validate your numbers with the NPD anymore. Take his advice about standing on your own two feet and look at your numbers as the ones that the world should be going with - I do.


OriGin (on 15 June 2007)

I think you would probably find that this stems from the major companies like Nintendo and Sony and Microsoft saying to NPD... Well why should we pay you so much for this information when get can get something that is 'virtually' accurate enough for free. I think you'll find that NPD is being badgered.


GamerGuide (on 15 June 2007)

Im new to this site and am still trying to determine its usefuleness but as I was going through the threads I couldnt help but notice this particular posting. It goes all over the place but is a humorous read. Im sure I speak for everyone when we get to learn more about your retailers. If your numbers are actually more accurate than NPDs and the other worldwide trackers you might be onto something but you need retailer endorsement for anyone to begin taking you seriously. Maybe its because Im not a rabid fan like many of you but I don't see anything wrong with rileys comments. Its criticism and nothing else. Its apparent theres no love between ioi and Riley but you have to be prepared to take blows like this whenever you post a competitors information. IMHO, you should not have posted his email because it makes you look bitter.


altasia (on 15 June 2007)

This just can't be, such a childish reaction. If this e-mail was realy sent bij the NPD senior manager then I would be less concernd with VGchartz and more with my new job "the NDP senior janitor".


Astrodust (on 15 June 2007)

The problem ioi is that you picture this guy as a grown adult standing over you and trying to intimidate you. You need to picture David as a little kid trying to bully everyone out of his sandbox. He is nothing more than a little child. A LITTLE CHILD!


jorge13130 (on 15 June 2007)

Dude this sucks, I don't care which source is more precise, I like VGChartz because it gives us info that NPD bans and blocks from others sites


johnlucas (on 15 June 2007)

And yes I reference your charts in my Popzart articles. Can't wait around for NPD every month. John Lucas


johnlucas (on 15 June 2007)

F these guys. That reaction you got from them is one that fears the inevitable. You are about to make them irrelevant. Your very own Blue Ocean strategy like a certain red plumber's company. These numbers should be for the PEOPLE not just the corporations. Continue to refine and improve your methods VGChartz, I support you and hope one day you become the premier source for game market salestracking. It helps customers become more informed buyers and shows where to put investment in purchasing. Keep up the good work and frame these pathetic emails on your wall for future laughs in flashback. John Lucas


sharky (on 15 June 2007)

It does sort of suck if some sort of NPD/Vgchartz partnership was in the works though, and is now completely derailed. Maybe vgchartz shouldn't have made all those posts comparing thenselves to NPD if it would have avoided this and led to some sort of NPD partnership down the road that would have led to more accurate vgchartz numbers for all. Oh well it's done now.


SpaceJase (on 15 June 2007)

DKII, if you have a problem with someone why not just name them or PM them. You come accross like an over enthusiastic traffic warden. God help us all if you ever have any real power.


DKII (on 14 June 2007)

Try to react with a little maturity guys. :P


z64dan (on 14 June 2007)

He's probably just worried about losing his job. Why would he be paid by NPD if some amateur enthusiasts can come up with pretty reliable data, for free?


Zucas (on 14 June 2007)

We should all send this dude hate mail haha.


SpaceJase (on 14 June 2007)

That's exactly right Steve3.2. ioi is simply plugging into a market that NPD have neglected. If it's such a big problem for them then let's see what they can do about it.


Steve 3.2 (on 14 June 2007)

If NPD is so good, let's see them try to put out weekly figures. Enough of this last month's figures two weeks late. Keep up what you do ioi! :)


Xyrax (on 14 June 2007)

Wow what a tool. IoI keep up this good work and your going to get f*****g paid. They WILL buy your arse out man. The closer you get, the less of an option they have. IMO when it comes to that point you had better sell and collect the $$$ and drive away from all of this in a new shiny exotic car. Don't play the noble road mate lol, frack that. When they offer you the big bucks to shutup, take it and run.


Keeper Garrett (on 14 June 2007)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH man the world is full of corporate shitcockery!


SlorgNet (on 14 June 2007)

Ye Gods. NPD should be ashamed of themselves. This is the kind of bullying and arrogance I expect from Hollywood moguls and other non-evolved life forms, not the game industry, which is about exploration, innovation, and invention (often at the price of spectacular failure). Probably they're just ticked off they can't find a legitimate legal angle to quash VGChartz, so they're doing the only thing they can do -- being nasty. Just ignore them, and keep up the good work!


llewdebkram (on 14 June 2007)

I presume various media outlets pay them for their data and he's worried they will simply visit VGchartz and got data for free instead. the public are not going to question the numbers when they appears in magazines and newspapers so why pay for the information.


Tetsuya (on 14 June 2007)

NPD WILL SOON BOW DOWN TO VGCHARTZ!!!!!! LOL!!!!


Tetsuya (on 14 June 2007)

whatever he's jealous because VGChartz is getting into its prime time and he is getting scared...he's a sucker!!!!


Blue3 (on 14 June 2007)

he does have a point.


Zucas (on 14 June 2007)

Dude just forget them. Your doing a great job and just fuck NPD. I take your numbers with just as much credit as anyone else's. Cause there's are estimates as well and to be cocky about theirs are more right than yours is just unproffesional. Cock and arrogant. Screw them.


SpaceJase (on 14 June 2007)

So you were in talks which broke down just because of a comment you made on here? It sounds very childish on his part. My theory, based on what little information I have, is that David watches these boards very closely, hoping and praying that your figures are wide of the mark. It would be a nightmare for NPD if your figures where to track close to theirs over a period of time, so it's little wonder that they wanted to 'partner' you when they thought this might happen. No doubt they would be prepared to pay a substantial sum just to close you down if that became the case. Keep going at it ioi and maybe someday soon you will get handsomely rewarded for all your efforts.


shams (on 14 June 2007)

Nah, just ignore the guy. Definitely don't let him stress you out! I'm sure the last thing you REALLY want to be doing is work "closely" with the NPD (i.e. turn this into a commercial venture) and have all the stresses relevant to it. Keep investigating, and you might just undercover a huge conspiracy between NPD and Sony ;)


ioi (on 14 June 2007)

Well the top email was sent today for no reason after not speaking for a month (he obviously checked out the site and saw the article TheSource wrote) The second email was again in response to comments posted on here on NPD day by myself and other users. It was preceeded by: "After reading your posts this evening - once again stating you are "close" to our data and we only track 60% of the market, which everyone in the industry knows is inaccurate - we've decided you are not an appropriate partner for us." We were supposed to be in talks at the time about working together. I have yet to respond and won't be doing so (apart from these comments here)...


SpaceJase (on 14 June 2007)

BTW: You may not think that you're in competition with NPD but clearly David sees it otherwise!


SpaceJase (on 14 June 2007)

Wow! This guy is clearly threatened enough to go out of his way to badger you ioi. That is a huge affirmation that you are doing good work! Seems to me that you may be threatening his livelyhood. I love his use of the word 'son' - clearly intended to be condescending but it only makes him look like a tit. That said, I'd be interested to know what you've said in emails to him (if anything). Is this just one side of a larger conversation we're getting here?


shams (on 14 June 2007)

This is pretty astounding - this David guy obviously has no idea what he is doing, or the trouble he will cause for the NPD. NPD *should* be ignoring VGChartz completely. We are not in competition with them, nor do we claim to be. Instead, NPD is obviously VERY worried. This usually results when a company (in a particular 'niche' industry) is RIPPING off the clients, and has no competition. Think about this: - if VGChartz gets close to the actual NPD figures - NPD could basically be forced to shutdown. Their expensive information is no better than data freely available from a fan site! So they are basically FORCED to show their data is significantly different from that of VGChartz - NPD cannot do anything to stop or hurt VGChartz in anyway. They can try to sue the site (and will lose), can try to purchase the site outright then shut it down (possible, but unlikely?) or just ignore it completely - their best course of action. There is even a distinct CHANCE that NPD could (may be forced) to intentionally distort their figures if VGChartz get too close to their figures! (i.e. send real data to their paid clients, and fake data to the rest of the market). Of course this would come out, and would destroy their integrity as well. I have a feeling we have only seen the start of this...


Erik Aston (on 14 June 2007)

NPD needs to switch their business model towards what Billboard does for music. Basically, with growth in the videogame industry, a hobbyist site like VGC popping up was an inevitability. VGC does not immediately and directly harm NPD yet, as it is unlikely to the point of absurdity that even a minor publisher would be relying on a site like this as a primary source of data. VGC may only undercut NPD is if they are overcharging for data or not providing very in-depth numbers (weekly or even daily sales for major game launches, sales by retailler, in-depth analysis and historical comparisons) because they have a monopoly, but whether they are is only speculation. Ultimately, if NPD made a major switch, they could find a much bigger audience (though the transition could be difficult). They could continue selling incredibly in-depth numbers to corporations, but also profit from a part-ad-based, part-subscription website providing weekly charts with some sales data (top 10 games and consoles), and take advantage of dedicated hobbyists like ioi by having them compile books of data with an intermediate amount of information for retail sale (like Joel Whitburn's awesome Billboard books). But a market research firm will not think that way. That's not in their mission statement. They relate to one type of customer--major corporations--in many different markets, and are not built to start providing different levels of information to different types of customers within the same market. But in the videogame market, there's growing demand for that, and VGC is starting to tap it. And the market is always right.


Deegan (on 14 June 2007)

OMG Dave.. SAY NO TO DRUGS!!


Cursayer2 (on 14 June 2007)

Made a few articles about this on the web. Fuck NPD (mind my language)


superchunk (on 14 June 2007)

DIGG IT


DKII (on 14 June 2007)

The fact that he pays any attention to this site at all is astounding...


DonWii (on 14 June 2007)

@60Hertz, because America is Greedy.


ckmlb (on 14 June 2007)

LOL that is just hillarious. Maybe NPD should spend more time making weekly numbers instead of wasting their time sending these kinds of Emails to other trackers...


Vengi (on 14 June 2007)

Dug and commented.


Square07 (on 14 June 2007)

Continue the good fight ioi, remember how they screwed the GAF with that 'new deal'? They won't even allow data they no longer have/offer (pre-1995 sales) to be made public!


DonWii (on 14 June 2007)

Were those from March, or was he looking at data from May?


60Hertz (on 14 June 2007)

Sales data should be freely distributed anyway - why is it that in japan their data is free and what you pay for is an indepth analysis... It amazes me that companies would allow NPD to hog the data like that anyway and then to make money off of it! Making money off of someone else's numbers??? Keep up the good work vgchatz.com, distributers and retailers will realize that they are being taken advantage of (for once lol!) and your market coverage will increase... so one day.... all this will be yours!


footbag (on 14 June 2007)

If they have a problem with VGchartz, maybe they should set up a public website and give all of their data out for free.


BenKenobi88 (on 14 June 2007)

Posting his emails probably wasn't the nicest thing...but from the emails it looks like he's a complete jerk...so post away! NPD could offer their numbers to a lot of fans who just want to keep up-to-date on information, but for some reason that never clicks with them...they're fine with their insane subscription costs by large departments...lame.


superchunk (on 14 June 2007)

The way I see it you are not "off by 10% - 13%". NPD is "off by 10% - 13%" of your actuals.


Cursayer2 (on 14 June 2007)

Maybe I'll edit David Riley's page on Wikipedia with this email.


Edouble24 (on 14 June 2007)

well I'm guessing this is the end of VGcharts American data. That's pretty sad and I really disliked NPD before I seen this...but if they really wrote that then I have to laugh...it's sad though.


JustinUK (on 14 June 2007)

I agree with Nordlead. How childish and unprofressional. You'd never expect someone from a company like that to resort to childish name calling. He sounds British if he uses 'bollocks'. Not a word that Americans use much. Seems like they are a bit miffed with you and possibly a bit threatened. I'd forward his emails to their customer service department if they have one.


Smash_Brother (on 14 June 2007)

El oh El The fact that they're going out of their way to badger you means that companies aren't paying their redonculously high prices for data anymore because they're using data from VGChartz and others. And FYI, you know you're doing something right when they start shooting at you. Well done, VGC.


ioi (on 14 June 2007)

Well NPD relations are obviously none-existant any more, we had tried to agree to work together but they basically wanted us to stop doing what we do and just post their public numbers, which kind of defeats the idea of the site. I just wanted to show the arrogance and immaturity in which they approach conversations with websites. I don't like being bullied.


redspear (on 14 June 2007)

Kruze, You can not get in trouble for posting personal letters Emails or even conversations to the public if they are adressed to you or are not under an NDA or gag order. IOI obviously has no business relations with NPD anymore and is free to post whatever he wants about conversations between the two. It may be unprofessional to post them but the content of the e-mails are alos unprofessional. However In every contract case I have ever been involved with I have seen e-mails and communications that are much worse. Unless IOI is posting this solely as an act of libel but than again I imagine this has more to do with showing the nature of his relations with NPD at the moment.


gebx (on 14 June 2007)

Digg the Article people!! I can't believe no one has digged it!


FishyJoe (on 14 June 2007)

Are you sure this email is legit and not fake?


Lingyis (on 14 June 2007)

wow, that's the best compliment you can get. i wonder if this manager has the kind of knowledge depicted in the manager in the dilbert cartoons? that'll be hilarious. somebody should put this on joystiq or something...


ioi (on 14 June 2007)

Well as I say, it is probably unprofessional of me to post private emails here as well but I just want people to be aware of the bullying and total lack of professionalism that is going on behind the scenes. It is really starting to get on my nerves - why they won't just leave us to do what we do and continue doing what they do, I don't understand. I have always endorsed NPD and have always conceded that their figures are obviously far more accurate than ours, why keep attacking us?


KruzeS (on 14 June 2007)

I sure hope you don't get into any trouble for posting snippets from a private conversation like this. But beyond that, just the fact that he even looks at your figures and feels the need to scrutinize them, should be acknowledgment enough that your doing a fine job. Unfortunately, these people don't seem able to step out of their tiny boxes, and understand that there's a lot of people for whom the service you provide is far more valuable than their own.


superchunk (on 14 June 2007)

They are scared. They realize that companies won't care about a difference of 10-20% and they will begin to lose revenue as you site gives the best tracking and quick reports available. I mean look at all of the news media that is beginning to use your charts.


nordlead (on 14 June 2007)

well, its there now. Seems like he thinks they are accurate to within 1% by his comment about "And if we're only rep'ing 60% of the true market, why even mention us?" Also, I've been under the impression that you only change your equations and re-run the data you already have instead of just putting static numbers in there that are based off of what the manufacturers and various companies say. Is this right? Oh well, this is still the best free resource I've come across.


thors1982 (on 14 June 2007)

Wow... how extremely unprofessional and childish


nordlead (on 14 June 2007)

interesting title, but i don't see anything to read :-/


marc (on 19 June 2007)

This is exactly why I said the VGA charts are probably more trust worthy than NPD a few months back. Many argued that NPD cannot be corrupt because they are a business.... they are more likely to be corrupted because they are a business from what Ive learned in my experiences. Does that person sound like he is honest to you? For all we know, NPD's numbers could be the ones that wrong. We simply have no way of knowing.