John Lucas Interviews Sean Malstrom - News
by VGChartz Staff , posted on 23 October 2008 / 11,994 Views
Written by John Lucas
"Who is the better forecast of the future, bankers or children ?" That is the question posed by one Sean Malstrom, the scientific maverick who has captured the attention of a generation of videogame analysts and fans alike with his methodically reasoned and - more often than not - correct approach at the disruptive nature of an industry in flux. But beyond the facts and figures lay an impassioned call to examine the inner workings of what keeps the clock ticking, and just why we should care. Our own John Lucas takes a peek into the mind of one of ludology's most fascinating figures...
For more information on Sean Malstrom and his collection of essays please visit his official blog right HERE .
JL: Ok Sean, you have respect among quite a few gameplayers across the ‘internetworks’, I’ve seen (me included). How does it feel to know your views have such an impact on people?
SM: It’s generally a surprise. From my perspective, I don’t really see it much. At the very beginning, I was curious about what people said about ‘SM’ but now it seems there are too many references. I’m usually too much behind in my own projects and research to notice what is going on the outside anymore.
JL: Lost in the maelstrom, so to speak?
SM: I’ve been in the website business before, and if there is anything I want people to know is that one does not have to make a big budget website with fancy art, huge database, and all. One does not need a crew. My website has the cost of $0 and is an el cheapo free site. It really shows that content is what really pulls people. It’s the old fan-sites where people would go and make things themselves, and the site seemed tacky. But the tackiness had a charm.
JL: I agree with that sentiment. It really speaks to the direction of minimalism the videogame industry is heading. Clear the clutter.
SM: Maybe I am just nostalgic for the past. Of course, a decade ago most fan-sites were Geocities disasters. But there was some really good stuff. Some sites got people hired at various places like Blizzard and all.
JL: Me personally, I prefer it when a site is ‘homey’, you know? Cozy, intimate.
SM: It feels like most gamers are making their voices heard through message forums now instead of the old websites. But I suppose that could be the changing shift of the Internet. Perhaps it was blogs that took it over. Well, the Internet didn’t have YouTube a decade ago. Or podcasts. It was more of a written medium then.
JL: What about gaming media? How much do you think that's changed?
SM: Well, it would be media in general. What is fascinating about gaming is that it is mostly young people. Businesses are dying to know how young people consume and create media since they believe that is the future. There is a story of an IBM executive who would hang out with high school kids to find out what the changes would be. Everyone wrote when the Internet was primarily websites. But when podcasts became big, all the young talent switched to podcasts. Now it appears they are all making internet movies.
JL: Do you think that with the current climate this ‘young people’s domain’ may expand to the point where, say, adult women in their 30’s & 40’s start writing gaming publications?
SM: Adult women do write about video games. They just aren’t in the typical ‘game community’. I know Nintendo has done viral marketing with ‘alpha mom’ type sites, getting housewives excited and all. Much of Nintendo’s advertising outreach is in the non-gaming arenas. There seems to be very little documentation of exactly what Nintendo is doing in these areas. But then again, most gamers don’t browse the non-gamer arena.
I just saw Wii Sports inserted, strangely, into a ‘healthy’ breakfast cereal. I’m like, “Whoa! Did I just see Wii there?” Obviously, Nintendo paid to associate Wii with healthy cereal in that commercial.
JL: Nintendo Cereal System rears its pixilated head again! Do you think these kinds of sites may come to be the dominant voice in gaming media in the future? Near or far?
SM: Dominant voice? Well, look at retailers. Who has more sway? Wal-Mart or Gamestop?
JL: You’ve got a point. Wal-Mart definitely.
SM: I think the total lack of coverage on the non-gamers, and trying to make game news content for them, is sowing the seeds of disruption as these non-gaming arenas begin covering gaming on their own within family magazines or health magazines.
JL: Ah, I love it when you talk about disruption. Gaming media is pretty much where gaming products are right now. Stuck in a box. There’s a whole world out there we’re not seeing, isn’t it?
SM: People don’t think these non-gamer viewers will ‘care’ or have the same eyeball usage as a gamer on a traditional website. But these are parents trying to get games for their kids and games for themselves. It isn’t ‘gaming’ to them as it is more of a ‘family’ thing which, ironically, will give the non-gamer more passion about it than even the hardcore gamer.
JL: I wonder if O Magazine has some features about games. Would someone be bold enough to talk games in Cosmopolitan?!
SM: We see mothers buying Wii systems for their kids based solely on how it is a family machine. These new customers see the Wii as a type of ‘enhancement’ to their family life instead of a ‘game’ thing. Look how ferocious these mothers are in getting a Wii for little Johnny at Christmas. Hardcore gamers can’t even compare with that type of aggression and passion! =)
JL: Yes, ask me about this myth about the “hardcore”. There’ll be lots to say on this subject. It’s got to be one of the most annoying phrases I have ever heard. “Hardcore.” Who or what is “hardcore”?
SM: The most modern crystallization I’ve seen of the ‘hardcore’ was in 2004 when playing World of Warcraft. Now, World of Warcraft was designed by Blizzard to ‘fix the problems’ of other MMORPGs such as Everquest. Blizzard went a Blue Ocean path here. They tried to build a MMORPG for gamers who didn’t have to play it all the time. They allowed experience to go up when one rested, for example, so that player could catch up with friends if he couldn’t play in a while. The quests were all very simple to understand unlike other MMORPGs. This gave Blizzard a massive, massive hit. Blizzard was stunned by it. They had unlocked whole new markets in the MMORPG.
The modern ‘hardcore’ emerged by those who would alter their lives and did everything they could to get ahead. They ended up hitting the EndGame early, and then they would spend HOURS going through raids for an item that may or may not drop. Then, they would ‘lord’ over their digital achievements (which was time invested) over the other players. “Look at me! I have an epic axe!”
JL: Interesting thought: Is it “work” or “play”?
SM: Blizzard initially had a problem with some of the WoW developers. They were ‘hardcore’ and wanted to make more endgame raids. In one instance, a WoW developer gave news to a hardcore rading guild. This was a big no-no, since news has to go through the proper channels in such a company like Blizzard. But it showed that the developer hearts were hardcore.
Cliff Bleszinski and Molyneux confirms that many game developers despise the ‘casual’ and fear for their ‘hardcore’ games. I suspect they feel that ‘casual games’ is a waste of their talents.
JL: My grandmother had a saying “A hardhead makes a soft behind.” Hardcore seems to parallel this refrain.
SM: I would say the definition of the hardcore gamer is someone who alters his or her life around gaming. Normal people do not do this. They do not set aside their weekend to raid in Molten Core. The success of the DS and Wii is that it has allowed people to insert gaming more into their regular lives.
JL: It’s like they’ve missed the point of what this pastime is about, isn’t it? The game is an enhancement to your life not a replacement.
SM: It makes sense that when a game keeps getting longer and longer, and more demanding of skills to be learned to play effectively, less and less people can fit that into their life. I think this definition proves true across any ‘hardcore’ definition. The hardcore football fan will rearrange his schedule to watch every football game, to go to every football game. In that way, a product is not ‘hardcore’ or not. It depends on how one uses it.
Tetris is ‘hardcore’ if you rearrange your life to play Tetris, to get the biggest scores. Wii Sports can also be played in a ‘hardcore’ way. But, of course, if a game requires only huge time invested, then the only way to play it is to rearrange one’s schedule. That game is ‘hardcore’ because there is no other way to play it! Somewhat like WoW’s top raid dungeons.
JL: Yes, it (Wii Sports) can and it gets those mothers to stake out those retailers in a hardcore way as well much to the self-proclaimed core’s chagrin.
SM: Publishers have been trying to think of how to beat World of Warcraft. The answer is simple. Simply solve the problems that WoW has. That is, after all, what WoW did to Everquest. And WoW focused on making the MMORPG less ‘hardcore’, that people didn’t have to rearrange their lives just to play a video game.
Nintendo is also pursuing this. However, what Nintendo refers to as ‘Core’ and ‘Expanded’ markets have nothing to do with the slang terms of ‘hardcore’ and ‘casual’. To Nintendo, core market is the traditional video game market. They would be gamers’ games. They would be Mario and Zelda.
JL: Would you say that these slang-termed “hardcore” are ‘PETRIFIED’ about the Blue Ocean “casually” washing them away at high tide?
SM: But Nintendo is focusing on removing the ‘hardcore’ elements from even their Core games. No one should have to rearrange their life schedule just to play a Zelda game. Zelda games are good, but not that good!
JL: You got that right.
SM: Well, much of the Internet reaction should be taken with a grain of salt. The lovable hardcore are fun to talk about. It is they who create visions of Apocalypse when Wii Fit or Wii Music were announced. But gaming is an extremely emotional medium.
And unlike music and movies, gaming gives people the emotional feeling of achievement. Why else would a WoW player keep killing raptors in a cyclical fashion if not to go up levels? Much of our lives are uninteresting. We spend it in a corporate world, or in a school, and then there is the commute of fighting traffic each and every day. The emotional outbursts, I think, signal more of a strained life than with the hardcore personally.
JL: Interesting that with the ascent of technology used to wind up our lives we use technology as a way to wind down.
SM: Most of our lives, we are told what to do. Do this and this and you will get a good grade. But after college, there are no set paths. Many long for those simple rules again for achievement. Gaming provides it. We’ve seen extreme cases where some people lose their lives to a MMORPG or others invest a fortune in a video game collection to ‘get every single one’.
JL: This is probably why it takes people to get away from their 20s to lose some of that attitude behind. Responsibilities of adulthood interferes with an intense gaming hobby, doesn’t it?
SM: Since the feelings of achievement are ingrained in games, I think the push for demanding that it is ‘art’, rather than an entertainment diversion, is really a demand for that feeling of achievement to be authentic. But it isn’t authentic. It is, after all, just a game.
JL: The game to get away from the ultimate game, Life.
SM: Perhaps that would explain the hatred hardcore gamers have for the so-called ‘casual’. They see them as an attack on their sense of achievement they get from games. After all, casual games are ‘easier’ which the hardcore views as ‘destroying’ everything. And casuals don’t have their lives revolve around gaming. They insist that gaming NOT interfere with their life schedule which is further downer on the ‘feeling of achievement’.
At least from how hardcore interpret it. I’ve been hardcore before as well. I think people go from hardcore to casual in pendulum swings back and forth between their lives. Sometimes, our lives get busy and we have to do other things. The problem with the Hardcore is that they are literally attacking the new market and are trying to make gaming an exclusive medium.
I’m thrilled that games don’t require 30 hours to play. That means I can play more of them and I can engage in gaming more in my life. But hardcore are not thrilled. They are furious. And I think it goes back into they have invested so much time in gaming, they fear that their sense of achievement is not an achievement.
JL: I’ve played Brain Age and Wordjong much more often than my “LP” games lately.
SM: It reminds me of the Star Wars and Star Trek fans (I’m a fan of both) who can cite the canon of the entire series and all the episodes. They will begin saying, “But these are cultural events that must be studied!” in order to justify the nerdiness.
JL: Humans live to justify their deeds. Who would we be without it?
SM: There has lately been an attack on sales numbers. They say, “Britney Spears albums sold more than Bach. But no one would say Bach is worse than Britney Spears. Therefore, sales numbers don’t mean anything.”
JL: It’s a tricky subject because sales has some correlation with interest but not necessarily with quality. Sometimes sales ARE INDEED the mark of an influential product and other times a mark of hype.
SM: Actually, that argument has more to about timelessness than about sales. Britney Spears is almost already forgotton. Bach is still remembered centuries later and will still remain so. What defines quality in a video game? Is it the game reviewers? Is it the publishers? Who defines quality? It is the customer.
JL: Compare Grand Theft Auto III: San Andreas to Super Mario Bros. Highest selling GTA game vs. the Nintendo classic and best-selling game of all time.
SM: Yeah, that’s a good point. SMB 3 is still the top game in VC sales lists. It sold massively on the GBA as well. SMB 3 will likely still be selling decades from now. The older versions of GTA? Most likely not.
SM: This brings up a good point. Many publishers are seeing only the money aspect and not the customer behavior. They have even begun attacking pre-owned games. Games that sell forever do not stay in the pre-owned shelf. What customers want is to buy games they will forever play. They don’t want to buy a game with zero replay value. When that occurs, the game gets sold as used.
JL: Perennial sports games come to mind.
SM: Do publishers try to focus on making games that people keep playing? No! They just attack the pre-owned market. The problem is that publishers are beginning to blame customer behavior for their woes. But customer behavior is never EVER wrong. In the old days, most home games were arcade games, or at least games that descended from arcade games. They had that classic arcade gameplay. Much of that is missing today.
JL: VERY missing.
SM: What some publishers have realized is that multiplayer games keep their games off the pre-owned shelf. But is it really multiplayer or fast, fun arcade type gameplay? FPS is popular because it tends to have that type of gameplay.
JL: I haven’t seen Wii Play in used game shops.
SM: Haha, good point! According to the hardcore, no one wants Wii Play just want a second remote. But Wii Play was extremely well done. The tanks game is excellent. The other games aren’t that bad at all. Some people say, “What! Minigames!? Oh, my precious industry!” but they don’t realize it isn’t minigames that people crave but that arcade type action. Wii Sports is very arcade like. So is Wii Fit.
JL: I wish Nintendo would come out with Wii Bingo. Could really get the retirement homes poppin’!
SM: It is interesting seeing the progress from arcade gameplay. The first home games were merely arcade ports. Then the home games developed more elaborate worlds on that arcade type gameplay. It just grew larger and larger. I would say after the 3D revolution was when much of that arcade gameplay was lost. Then, many developers thought people were playing their games for the ‘awesome’ stories and adventure.
The game industry has gotten away form its arcade roots. Flash gaming and the Wii Sports and even Brain Age are very much in touch with that arcade element. I think this is why Mega Man 9 was so celebrated as well. It kept very close to its arcade gameplay that made the original such a hit.
JL: Yes, I wanted to ask you about that.
JL: My fellow Popzarian Mr. Universal is highly impressed with the return of Mega Man in Mega Man 9. What do think the long term impact of this title will be?
SM: It depends on how much it sells and how much profit is made. I hope it ushers in something I’ve always been wanting the game industry to do.
JL: Better designed Mega Man bosses?
SM: It is to stop with the usual formula for selling games. The formula is better graphics, more features, tons of marketing hype, and have all the sales within the first few months until the game drops off. Then aggressively cut the price of the game to keep sales up until it hits the bargain bins. I want publishers to focus on making games that will last forever. The fact that people sell their games to pre-owned shops is not the fault of the customer, it is the fault of the publisher for making such a forgetful unreplayable product. Making games that last forever is harder said than done. But let’s put it in another way...
Super Mario Brothers is one of the best selling games of all time. The game still sells extremely well. So do its platform siblings such as Sonic and Mega Man. New Super Mario Brothers smoked the sales charts everywhere. Massive, massive success. So why not make more games like it? It is extremely risk free. The costs would be low.
JL: I think that one will reach 20 million soon.
SM: Not even Nintendo realizes this. The 3D Mario games don’t sell like the 2D ones. It had to have been a shock when NSMB sold HUGE in Japan while Mario Galaxy received a tepid response. I don’t think Nintendo sees 3D Mario as a different series. The customers see 3D Mario as one series and 2D Mario as another series. But not Miyamoto.
JL: If nothing more than gameplay-wise
SM: I think a major flaw was thinking we liked playing Mario games because of Mario, and its music, his world, and all that. But really, the market doesn’t care. We just want awesome platformers. When Sonic appeared, the market ate it up. So did the market with Donkey Kong Country. I have some theories as to why Nintendo has abandoned its most successful series of 2D Mario.
Many of the people at Nintendo, such as Miyamoto, have made 2D Mario games and have been making such games for a long time. He wants to do something new. However, the younger employees in Nintendo want to make the more retro style games.
JL: Where Miyamoto goes, so does Mario. There’s a struggle
SM: I believe there is also a major problem of developers falling in love with their own work, the “all our babies our beautiful” syndrome. There was one Nintendo interview, quite a while back, where it said that Nintendo playing with the idea of a brand new 3D Mario for the DS. Now, who wants a 3D Mario for the DS?
JL: Games take so long to make nowadays I see how this can happen. It’d be difficult to make that work.
SM: I don’t think the market wants a new 3D Mario on DS. DS really isn’t the right platform for that. Not just in terms of its graphics capability, but that it is a handheld. Handhelds require more pick up and play gaming which 3D Marios aren’t the best at. Despite that, the Nintendo developer was really enthused about the idea.
JL: They usually figure a way out of no way so I wouldn’t put it past them. Still it’s hard to envision from here.
SM: Since everything is 3D, many developers probably feel it is a waste to play it in a 2D style. They are in love with their babies. They want to walk around in their creation, to savor all its parts. When I worked on one project, I had that particular fight with a programmer. He kept wanting to make it 3D just because he was intoxicated with immersing himself in his own creation. The customer doesn’t want it.
JL: The industry still struggles with that massive creative shift. Narcissists in the gamemaking world?
SM: Oh definitely. There is plenty of vainglory in any industry. This is why Iwata’s parable of the king and the slave is so good. The customer is the king. He decides what is quality. NOT the slave.
JL: If only our governmental “public servants” remembered this.
SM: Aside from platformers, there are a whole number of older game types that are very much in demand today, even in niche qualities. How about a new Super Metroid type game? How about a new 16-bit era Square RPG? The possibilities are endless and the cost is extremely low. We see these games selling left and right on WiiWare, Xbox Live Arcade, and on the Internet.
Remember when Epic’s Mark Reins was complaining about most computers being sold do not have the huge 3D card in them anymore?
JL: I forget. He complains about so much I lost track.
SM: The solution to that is to make games for the computers the customer already has. Even with the most basic computers sold today, the game creation limits are massive. What graphical limits are there on 2D gaming? What limits are there on sound quality these days? Any old time gamer will remember the old Soundblaster days, of old blocky like games. But none of that matters.
Even worse, there are some new elements such computers can product. The greatest shame about leaving behind 2D gaming is that 2D gaming never got the chance to explore online.
JL: INTERESTING
SM: I’d love to play 2D MMORPGs. There are tons of opportunities out there and the installed base is out there. Even on crummy laptops.
JL: The industry is divided between the philosophy championed by Sony and old Nintendo. Sony with its emphasis on the movie style product; Nintendo with its emphasis on the gameplay experience
SM: Well, I would say it is stuck in the old trajectory. The entire business model is based on incrementally improving graphics, adding more features, and creating a hyped release. This is when the Nintendo disruption comes in. The trajectory began overshooting what customers could absorb. People could not absorb HD games when most of the market lacks HD television sets. And $600 consoles? No way.
JL: Ol’ school game production is best seen with Flash developers and folks like that. People who know how to make magic with limitations
SM: There is also a disruption on the computer side where traditional PC gaming began overshooting what customers could absorb, even the hardcore ones! Very few people see any value in upgrading their video card and capabilities again just for a marginal graphics boost that won’t matter in the gameplay anyway.
JL: It’s an extension of business models really. Companies don’t stray far from their DNA it seems. Sony makes general all-purpose electronics.
SM: Yeah, that is a great point. Constraints are needed. Give a game company an infinite budget, endless development time, and you will get the crappiest game known to man... if it ever releases!
JL: Duke Nukem Forever!!!!
SM: One thing I am disappointed is that there are less gamers that make games. In the older days, when a gamer played a game he didn’t like, he would say, “I will make one better!” and he would do so. Sid Meir did this. Today, gamers just whine on message forums. Game creation, even for the most simplistic games, is still extremely difficult.
JL: The business changed in the mid-90’s. Companies not dedicated to “the art of the game” got involved and changed the scope of the industry
SM: But, then again, I don’t really see much difference between the huge games of today and the simplistic games aside from production quality. If Pong was made today, it would have to have cinematic Tennis introductions, back story on all the players, etc. even if the game remains what it is.
JL: Yes, at one time we used to imagine new game mechanics. Now we only imagine game gloss and shine.
SM: You know, I think one of the major problems can be summed up with game companies thinking that their production quality is the meat of their game. As if we are playing the game for its cinematic nature or for its ‘story’. Before, all that stuff was a supplement to the gameplay underneath.
JL: This leads me into one of your best works. I was waiting for the proper segue. You’ve devised a theory about the shifts in this medium’s direction that could very well be considered fact. Explain how you came up with the Theory of Cycles.
SM: That was back in 2006, before the Wii even came out. Unlike the more recent articles, I didn’t use any business books like Blue Ocean or disruption or anything like that in making it. I was looking back over my life, and what I had seen and witnessed in the game industry, and the upcoming Wii launch just smelled like ‘Deja Vu’ on so many levels. It felt like I was stuck in a constant loop.
But more importantly, I realized the wisdom of Miyamoto in one brilliant piece of advice has has for game developers. Paraphrasing, he advised upcoming game developers to do something, anything, but play video games. Study art, study poetry, go outside. His advice was the idea that the best games introduce new elements to gaming, rather than recycling previous elements.
When one seriously looks at a game like Super Mario Brothers, one realizes that it is really Alice in Wonderland. When Miyamoto made Donkey Kong, he introduced new elements into gaming from taking what he saw in movies. And there is a massive copycat nature in the game industry. When one game becomes a huge hit, everyone tries to copy it.
And since entertainment depends on surprise, you can’t keep remaking the same type of game elements forever. Combine all those, and you end up with cycles. I think of it more as a melancholy piece. It shows that gaming is not a stable medium. That it is little more than a digital storm that must suck in other elements to keep it fresh. I remember the very first games we heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons, especially the RPGs.
A hit breaks out, everyone copies that game, until eventually it fades in interest. Then someone, outside the industry, comes in with another hit game, copycats surround it, until that fades. Guitar Hero would be a good recent example. Eventually those music games will become uninteresting. I wonder how long they will last.
JL: Can’t be much longer. Wii Music seems to be doing something different with it
SM: Now that I think about, the most important thing I realized when I wrote Theory of Cycles was HOW THE GAME DESIGNER THOUGHT. In the cinematic cycle, game designers think like movie directors. They certainly didn’t think that way in the past, and they can no longer think that way now.
JL: Hideo Kojima Presents...American McGee’s...
SM: Now, the successful games of the Social/Interface Cycle, is coming from those who think of gaming as a more group event, i.e. “Wii”. MMORPGs are a good example of this. You cannot make MMORPG like a movie. The game designer has to think like a community manager.
I recall the earliest game designers were HUGE nerds (God bless them!) and thought of games as they thought of their sci-fi novels and dungeons and dragons games. Theory of Cycles is really about the contexts how game designers thought.
JL: Without nerds and sleazy businessmen there would be no gaming industry, hee hee.
SM: They obviously changed over time as what enters the industry changes. Nothing is exact, of course, but the purpose of Theory of Cycles was to offer an alternative to the idea that the game industry is a linear timeline of ‘evolution’ towards some higher ideal. The cycle that comes after Social/Interface will not be more Social and Interface. It will be very different. Something I am having problems imagining now. One thing that is constant in all the cycles is that games are really about people.
JL: Whereas before one would only think of gaming in generations of age or console competitors, the Theory of Cycles reoriented your thinking into a whole new mode.
SM: When you play a board game, you are not playing a board game. You are interacting with people. The Tabletop Cycle is obviously transplanting such board games, and games like Dungeons and Dragons, to a more digital realm. But the focus was still people. M.U.L.E. was made to be played with people. So was Pong.
Arcade Cycle the same way. Nolan Bushnell has to keep reminding people that arcades were really about people and were a social environment. Bushnell’s uWink is obviously his investment in that idea. Cinematic Cycle was also about people. They were just digital people as technology could more realistically display them. And, of course, the Social Cycle is about people.
JL: Maybe the next cycle merges all of these together somehow
SM: When you think of the greatest Cinematic Games, you really think about the people in them. In Ocarina of Time, one really remembers the characters in the game rather than the dungeons and how you helped the characters. In Final Fantasy VII, everyone thinks of the characters such as Aeris dying. The most important feature of gaming is the people. We even invent games around games. Speed runs and all that.
JL: The camaraderie of the arcades is something the younger ones today have no remembrance of. The King of Kong documentary that came out last year showed a glimpse of that life, even if it was the competitive side.
SM: Yes, the arcades were primarily about people. You would play with people, you would try to show off your progress in a game, and you would try to get a high score for bragging rights. Online is trying to replicate that but I don’t think it is working. It lacks the personal touch.
JL: I was the king of Asteroids at my local Laundromat as an 8 year old!
SM: Haha Good job!
JL: But never get me on Defender! Dangerous game. Was worthless there!
SM: Hmm, you know, maybe that has been a mistake was with online to display it in a world prism. Perhaps multiplayer gaming is best when it is defined to a smaller geography. I couldn’t care much about beating the world as I do about beating my neighbor - which would explain why I only look at my region ranking in Mario Kart Wii. Hmm...
JL: The world is vast and there are language and cultural barriers. It’s a great option, but sometimes you can’t beat whoopin’ tail against someone nearby preferably in the same room.
SM: The world is impersonal. My neighbor has personality. It is something to play a game and hear your winning streak is causing the other guy to go bonkers.
JL: And perhaps strangle you.
SM: The rush to online has made many companies forget about local multiplayer. Wii does local multiplayer extremely well. In fact, better than any other console I can think of.
JL: Remember Nintendo in Gamecube era was reluctant to go all ‘N-Box Live’. They always emphasized the local play more.
SM: Nintendo was concerned about costs. An Xbox Live model would force Nintendo to become a Service Company which they don’t want to become. Nintendo will never make a MMORPG for that reason.
JL: Well of course with such a financially conservative company that was a factor. Guess Animal Crossing City Folk will have to do.
SM: I wish there were more MMO ‘simple’ games like Subspace/Continuum. I’d love a MMO Contra where you and a few buddies can take a ‘dungeon’ (level) and new content comes and goes. Animal Crossing is brilliant in how it uses the system’s clock. I just wish that element was applied to other games. I’d love a 2D Mario that changed depending on the time.
JL: Imagination!
SM: It wouldn’t be too hard to do either.
All works and images from Popzara Press © 2008 Digital Rising, LLC
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No but they also keep going regardless. 8 billion is what, like the same as the profits from most previous Nintendo consoles? Yet they are fine. Disney is catering less to adults than MS is catering to casuals by leaps and bounds.
"10 billion dollars"
Nintendo made had like a year of making 2 billion, 2 years of making 1 billion, 1 year with 600 million and other generations could barely break the 100 million at all. I can't possibly imagine where 10 billion comes from.
Nintendo's business is relatively small compared to Microsoft and saying that MS should quit pushing its agenda and go with being just toy makers, doesn't seem plausible or logical.
Doesn't MS want the 360 to make lots of money? Sure they do. Would it be more profitable for the company to copy the Wii model? Absolutely not...
Whether Malstrom acknowledges this or not, he misses the point of a lot of things and takes the extreme people and use them to attack the gaming public as if he has a higher understanding of businesses and gamers and that he would be able to make the right choices.
Lets not kid ourselves, Fanboys often do know the facts. They just choose to ignore them when participating in a discussion.
Pipboy, man, all you're really doing is stating the obvious (much of which was already addressed by Malstrom himself) and then saying it's more complicated than Malstrom puts it. Now, anything ever can always be explained in more complicated terms, I think Ze Frank put it best:
http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/archives/2006/07/post_4.html
Also, Shakespeare:
"Brevity is the soul of wit."
Also, Disney is trying to cater to the adult crowd, movie makers are going after the same people TV show creators go after, and you can rest assured that Microsoft investors aren't happy that the company pissed away almost 8 billion dollars. Especially considering that market leader Nintendo made 10 billion dollars in the same time frame in the same industry; God, that must burn high and mighty Microsoft.
"B) This isn't so true, on the surface it is though; Malstrom explains that there are only two business models this cycle HD Twin and Wii, he also explains a bit about the asymetry of the two business models. Going back to the point; the logic from your "A" would mean that every sale missed for the PS3 due to the 599 price is a sale for the Xbox360 (People have to own the hardware to play the software.) Of course this isn't a one shoe fits all thing and some people still wait for a price drop. "
I think this is a bit of a stretch because it makes the purchase less obvious. If all good games were on one console, then maybe 10 people would buy that console. If both systems have some games and each has a few different exclusives, it makes a consumer much more weary.
Every sale that the 360 takes away from the PS3 does NOT mean an extra sale for the 360.
"So you should understand then that hypothetically by the PS3 being say $250 from launch it would only have moved hardware equivilent to those who would of gotten the PS3 for 599 and any number lower down to 250. So far I believe some models are as low as 400 which would lead me to believe that the PS3 could of done 50% better (400 -> 250 relative to the jump from 600 -> 400)"
This seems like a gross oversimplification of consumer behavior.
You are trying to make it seem like there is a 1+2 answer to this equation but in reality, if the PS3 could have launched earlier, it would have secured a lot more games. It would also have picked up before 360 could prove itself and have a decent install base. 250 is not a big entry price at all and if it was cheaper than the 360 and had the PS3 brand and the games to back it(even just a few titles), it would have completely destroyed the 360. As it is now, its got an extremely short list of games, a huge price tag, worse multiplatform performance and so on yet its still outselling the 360 by at least a little.
"C) How is this an issue, I honestly never understood how a medium format could of affected a gamers decision in buying a platform for their games, It's like refusing to Michael Jordan refusing to play basketball because the ball is made from rubber not plastic or something."
I think you misunderstood that point. It was about how they focused too much energy on making the BD successful and not the PS3. They did win the format war so only time will tell if that was the better decision.
"D) This is a summary? (There is no D)"
Heavy losses means they have less money to make games or support exclusive content and are unable to lower their price to compete with the Wii and Xbox.
You can say that the PS3 is still selling ok compared to the 360, but if next year, PCs sell marginally more than macs, then its a relative failure because you've lost your market dominance in an extremely short time period.
"B- is not avoidable, it's the direction of Sony's business model, the higher cost came with that direction in hardware and software, this of course applies to C also. The one thing Sony does have over the 360 is Blu-Ray, when games start taking up 40 gigs then Microsoft will have to either drop the unfair lease on the extra DvD charge on publishers or find a new way.. (Probably DLC?)"
Malstroms issue is that he is trying to describe these companies in a way that conforms to his little mold, something many failing analysts do when talking about the gaming industry. Its disappointing that he commits this fallacious train of thought and starts talking like he has all the right business decisions. The Wiis success and the PS3s failure is far more dynamic than his oversimplification of the causes.
As for charges to the publisher, DVDs can't possibly cost a significant amount to them... BD is also not really an advantage because its slow loads have forced extra HDD costs onto the consumer which is far worse. Bluray so far has not been able to prove effective and the reality is, that space won't get filled with more than fluff because games are expensive to make now adays and people aren't gonna make twice as much content for one game just because they can.
@Mick,
Your line of thinking is also kind of an oversimplification. Its like saying Disney is failing because its not trying to cater to the adult crowd or the porno industry or that movie makers fail because they don't also make TV series.
The Wii is also catering to a specific audience for a specific reason. They are a purely gaming company and hence all their profits come from gaming. Its stupid to impose this model on to MICROSOFT who can take Wiis profit numbers into losses annually and not even flinch. They aren't in here JUST for games. They want to push digital distribution, a multimedia/pc thats more accessable and build a brand on the high end gaming scene until living room PCs become the norm.
This is the failure of malstroms reasoning and everyone else are just being sheep to fashion in listening to him and Nintendo and thinking they actually have all the answers.
@Pipboy:
Saying they're a different market going after a different product is clearly incorrect. This "new market" is buying digital entertainment, and for any business that makes digital entertainment to not sell, or be able to sell, to these people is a failure, pure and simple. It is especially a failure considering that not selling to these people would mean avoiding a larger market than the one they're currently selling to.
@Pipboy
I'm guessing your putting it all out there so I won't be rude; I'll respond to a few.
A) True, and by you saying that you are agreeing with Malstrom about "me too" systems and Nintendo's method of not competeing.
B) This isn't so true, on the surface it is though; Malstrom explains that there are only two business models this cycle HD Twin and Wii, he also explains a bit about the asymetry of the two business models. Going back to the point; the logic from your "A" would mean that every sale missed for the PS3 due to the 599 price is a sale for the Xbox360 (People have to own the hardware to play the software.) Of course this isn't a one shoe fits all thing and some people still wait for a price drop.
So you should understand then that hypothetically by the PS3 being say $250 from launch it would only have moved hardware equivilent to those who would of gotten the PS3 for 599 and any number lower down to 250. So far I believe some models are as low as 400 which would lead me to believe that the PS3 could of done 50% better (400 -> 250 relative to the jump from 600 -> 400) that it is currently doing, placing it in a virtual tie with the 360, should supply be there. (OR ahead since they affect each others sales.) In the end sales would of still diluted, the difference is it may have taken longer (example japan weekly 8000 unit sales) based on just supply.
C) How is this an issue, I honestly never understood how a medium format could of affected a gamers decision in buying a platform for their games, It's like refusing to Michael Jordan refusing to play basketball because the ball is made from rubber not plastic or something.
D) This is a summary? (There is no D)
E) Again this is in line with what Malstrom blabs about. ^_^
I had to reread what you wrote just to make sure your A to E were you saying that "These are Malstroms points" or if they were your points, for the most part they are in line with each other, he just explains further.
B- is not avoidable, it's the direction of Sony's business model, the higher cost came with that direction in hardware and software, this of course applies to C also. The one thing Sony does have over the 360 is Blu-Ray, when games start taking up 40 gigs then Microsoft will have to either drop the unfair lease on the extra DvD charge on publishers or find a new way.. (Probably DLC?)
I read up on most of Malstrom and I think he thinks too much of himself. There is a bigger market out their and they want a DIFFERENT product. He is asking for these people to stop making the product that they are currently making so that they can make things that appeal to more people.
Its silly since you don't need MS or Sony catering to the "Blue Ocean" of non-consumers. Its far better for different companies to compete in different areas than the other way around.
The only reason PS3 is doing so poorly is because:
A)Xbox 360 stealing their games
B)599 US dollars...
C)Bluray(Obsession with Format War)
D)Heavy losses on console sales
E)Lack of games and big projects that failed or didn't make a huge impact on consumers (Lair, Ratchet, Heavenly Sword, Haze, Resistance losing to Gears and recently, SOCOM).
If the PS3 instead chose to release at a 300-400 dollar range in 2005 with the 360 and no BD, focusing more on providing good dev kits, then the 360 would have died before it got started and the PS3 would have easily picked up its massive PS2 fanbase.
The Wii would still be successful as its in a different market completely.
Also, I don't support extreme views in any form. Malstrom just has extreme views that points in the opposite direction and the more I read of his work, the more it feels like he's full of hot air. I seriously am beginning to think he had one big fluke because from this interview, all he has been doing is showing how little he knows about games or gamers and just takes the extremists and try to paint the entire gaming community that way in some kind of long winded character assassination.
JL and The Big M laying down the law and infuriating the old dinosaurs with their self-limiting views on gaming....keep up the good work.
I enjoyed the hell out of the interview. The "conversational" kind of interview works so much better than the usual interviews that ask the same 10 questions over and over.
@Pipboy
If you followed Malstrom's context you'd know that when he sais customers he doesn't reffer to gamers he's talking bought an expanded audience, at the above though his point has been the same. Like a broken record he keeps saying the the non-consumer is the one that should be heard, because they are the largest group.
As time goes on and people get older, regardless of language people learn more words and communication becomes much hader, because one person has to speak in relation and the other person has to listen in relation.
This article seems more like too fanboys discussing their own vanity...
If people actually read and interpret what Malstrom says here, he is being a big hypocrite throughout a lot of the article.
He also says that the customer is always right yet ignores the outcry of gamers. Nintendo might be making lots of money, but thats because of a brand, pricing and a new market. That doesn't mean all gaming has to go this way. Look at the software lineup and sales. Sure Nintendo stuff sells, because its Nintendo. But what about most devs? They've seen horrible results on the Wii.
In contrast, companies like Bungie and Epic are rolling in dough for making one hit wonders.
The gaming general CHOSE 3D games, stories and the such. If they didn't choose it, then the 2D games would have sold better. As it stands now, MM9 is selling well for a 2D game, but certainly not for a big release.
He also completely doesn't understand 2D games and why they last as long as they do and doesn't realize this is true of things like Card Games, Mine Sweeper and the such. He thinks just because they are 2D, that they are good? No its a combination of attachement, nostalgia, hand drawn art, simplicity, short length and the such that makes those games sell well.
This interview really just confirms he has a huge bias for Nintendo and he still fails to acknowledge other companies and their interests like the fact that PS3 was trying to push Bluray, so going for the same market as Wii would have been pointlessly contradictory and what really killed the PS3 was Bluray forcing the cost up to $600 US dollars while still taking a 200 dollar loss on each console.
The 360 isn't even aiming for the same market. It might want more game sales but the Xbox was launched first and foremost to kill the potential of Sony dominating the "living room PC". Even if they could have seen the future, they would not have made the Wii as their only console because its as clear as day that the Xbox and the 360 are just MS trying to build the foundation into a PC/console monopoly.
As rich as Nintendo is, Bill Gates just donated more than the company will make in like the next 10 years.
shrug
I fail to see the reason to point out that an opinion is, indeed, an opinion and not a fact.
@ mick846: Yep guys, you've seen it here. Opinions = Facts.
Good article. I never thought they could get Malstrom on here......
@Hawkeye:
Because Wario Land: Shake It! was dreadfully boring, and bogged down with a pointless story and too much text (in all seriousness, the story would have been cooler without any text or dialog at all, and just watching the characters interacting with each other).
Seriously, there's absolutely no pull or drive in the game to speak of. It mostly isn't worth playing.
Some people need to chill out! It was only his opinion. Just a harmless interview in my book. Gaming is supposed to be a pastime. Just as malstrom says, the people who are being the most vocal are the ones for whom gaming has taken over their lives!
Japanese people don't Mario, they want good 2D platformers? Then why did wario land: shake it! flop?
er. I hate his blog, but the interview was alright.
Haha I love it... Hardcore is that which has no life. Congratulations people on here that say its a good thing... now I have to find a way to kill that which has no life.
Well, that was refreshingly off the beaten track.
@frybread
That's the wrong view of direction. Nintendo ignored "demand". Nintendo put customer behaviour first. What people demand doesn't always match behvaiour.
Keep in mind that the loudest voice is generaly the vocal minority. The content aren't that loud. So when making product for the consumer. It's not about how loud someone is, it's about observing what they do.
johnlucas was the perfect choice to do this interview for several reasons.
He understands Malstrom very well, so he could ask the best questions and draw him out.
He agrees with Malstrom, and his genuine enthusiasm was likely to really get him going.
He can be over the top, so he was likely to innocently lead Malstrom to Crazy Town without either of them noticing.
This is a fanboys wet dream. Now if I could just find the time to read it, um, next week sounds good.
@Mummelman
Your confused. ^_^ He sais that games aren't hardcore, players can opt to play them in a fashion that is hardcore. In otherwords he's saying that WoW isn't a hardcore game because games aren't hardcore, but WoW can be played in a hardcore fashion.
He also sais that it would be better if more games had less hardcore elements in them or supported hardcore elements less, this means the game that used these elements less as a selling point would appeal to a less niche group; from a money stand point that's the point of product business. From a gamer stand point this means that there is more room for the game to be played in a hardcore fashion by more gamers.
What that means is he is for a wide appealing game that allows for the customer to do what they want and not the developer telling them what to do.
Great article....
Though one major innaccuracy.......
"JL: I haven’t seen Wii Play in used game shops."
There are at least 20 at every GameStop I've been to.....
I'm truly shocked that they spend 90% of the time talkign about the Wii. And Malstrom shows his true face here; he thinks "hardcore" games are irreleveant and unneccessary because they are advanced and takes some getting into, and thus, he does not want us who think differently to get these games. He also states that WoW was such a hit because it was very casual and then goes on to talk about how hardcore WoW is (which it really is, you can't get much done without spending obscene amounts of time in that game!), why not decide on either (imo, it is not both). You can spend all your time in Ocarina of Time fishing in the pond if you want, but that doesn't make the game particularly casual in the bigger scheme of things.
Zelda doesn't have to be advanced so we should not be able to play a deep Zelda, that is some pretty selfish thinking right there imo. Basically, Malstrom (and Lucas) want the gaming industry in its current form to die, leaving millions and millions of gamers wanting and longing, bereft of their favourite hobby because mothers with children should have not only first dibs, but indeed the only dibs on gaming.
Also, I still stand by my impression that these are two fanboys getting way too much attention from too many people.
When I saw Sean Malstrom interview I knew this would be long... when I saw John Lucas I knew it would seem long and imporbable.... Instead it was very blunt and to the point.
Great interview. I did liked that it was more like a conversation than a question/answer meme.
@DMeisterJ: You're a dork
@Frybread: they do listen to consumers. The only ones that complained about the name were fanboys and the less you listen to them THE BETTER.
Maelstrom why do you always profess that the customer must come first, the self-indulgent developer needs to put the users first, when Nintendo ignored customer demands when creating Wii? Even the name "Wii" was poorly received, had they listened to customers it would be "Revolution"
I read the parts I thought were interesting (which turned out to be a lot more than I originally thought), and I'm impressed. It seemed a lot like the Nintendo interwiews (you know, the one with Iwata talking to the others), and it worked awesomely, definately a good read.
I wanted an interview not a conversation!
Where are the hard hitting questions? Get Katie Couric in here.
Who is this John Lucas dude and where are the 60 million?
Haven't read it yet but when I saw John Lucas AND Sean Malstrom in the title I knew it was going to be a looooooong article. And I was right! I'll post my thoughts on it when I get the time to read it.
just an awesome interview. You guys are great.
Also, who in the hell is popzara?
lawl.
I should read this sometime soon. The premise is full of win though.
It's like leo-j interviewing Crazzyman
Or Starcraft interviewing MrStickball
Or trestres interviewing Onimusha12.
lolxD
John Lucas is my hero but I really couldn't read through the whole thing. Probably cause I would rather be hearing from Lucas than Malstrom and Malstrom seemed to do a hell of a lot of talking (understandable as he is the one being interviewed but I wish it was the other way round)
popzara = johnlucas?
That was a really good and interesting read. Thank for this. :)
hahah
that was good!
There's no way I'm reading through all that.
But the first few questions were interesting...
a really good explanation of "hardcore" and "Casual"
This was so great and a good sign of how much VGChartz has grown and evolved.
Amazing.. maybe the best thing ever to hit VgChartz.. simply amazing...
Uh thanks :-)
Great interview, really interesting to read.
Well, now I'm 2 hours late to my work, but it was worth it. Really interesting read.
MIND BLOWN
This... doesn't seem possible.
Wow how many days did it take to do the interview?
Haven't read it yet but I think this is the most hilarious idea for an interview ever. Major fanboy meets major fanboy.
