Console Tribalism is 'One of the Worst Things About Our Industry,' Says Phil Spencer - News

Well, he is right. Looks at this comment section... And all the downvotes, first instincts from some posters is to bitch Xbox... They did not even get that this is exactly what he is talking about, this behavior. The console wars is ruining the forums and all news section. A lot of fans thinks that hating and destroying the other brands is the way to love theirs... I don't get it. It is the same for others things like Apple vs PC/Android, etc. I just don't get why some people needs that to enjoy their own preferences.

@Imaginedvl

it's even more ridiculous because there is no better time than rn to be loving all three platforms since they're all hitting their stride and offering their own amazing things. nintendo has an incredibly unique system with the switch, microsoft is going all in and offering amazing value with gamepass, sony is pushing unique innovations with the dualsense, etc and all three are releasing amazing games. yet for some it's like instead of enjoying ALL this greatness they'd rather just limit themselves to one to fight for a company that doesn't give a fuck about them lmao.

Well some people actually do that but some others take it a bit too far to be called ribbing

Couldn't have said it better myself.

i'm 200% with you. Market team, some Xbox jornalists ( like Tom Warren from The Verge), Xbox "fan zealots" ( a vocal minority) are a big problem for "tribalism and console war".

Maybe they should just drop the act and nullify all the contracts that have PS versions. Maybe take off Minecraft and Minecraft Dungeons. Refund Sony’s money regarding Ghostwire and Deathloop. You can say it’s pseudo all you want, but they are objectively more progressive then Sony...which locks a global IP like Spiderman to one console despite only owning the film rights.

"Pseudo pro consumer facade". Ah yes, letting all your controllers and peripherals carry over so you don't have to be forced to buy new ones, pushing for cross-play so everyone can play together, introducing Smart Delivery so you don't have to buy a game twice, focusing on backwards compatibility so your old games aren't rendered irrelevant, putting all their games on GamePass day 1 for $10 a month, and even allowing you to play their games on PC/Streaming without buying an Xbox? It's not like they were even forced to do these things, they chose to when nobody else is doing it (yet). Hell they're even honoring the Playstation contracts for the Bethesda games. If this is considered "fake good" in your eyes then do you view Sony and Nintendo as fucking evil or something? Literally makes no sense whatsoever.

Arrogant marketing? They're literally in 3rd place right now. There's a difference between advertising the advantages your system has, which literally all of them do, versus being arrogant. I've criticized Sony for being arrogant with shit in the past but those are from extreme examples like when they do the "this is how you trade your games" shit which was just cringe. I will agree that MTX in first party games shouldn't be a thing really, but using that to act as though everything else they've been doing aint it man.

Also, saying that something is the worst without bothering to say why doesn't reinforce your point, that's subjective and you could use any reasoning to say that.

Any point you might have had gets destroyed because all it does is make you look like you're arguing in bad faith. I have no bat in this race since I play on everything so i'm all for criticizing companies when they deserve it, and MIcrosoft isn't without its faults, but come on now.

You are also the same person who literally said Microsoft was only putting their games on PC because they have little faith (which you call fake good) but then praise Sony for locking theirs down? When you convince yourself everything a company does must have bad intentions that's the only way you'll ever think, so i'm honestly convinced that even if Microsoft gave you games for free with a kiss on the cheek you would find a negative in it somehow.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9244342

Ah yes one of the users that really come to mind when thinking about tribalism

I take comfort knowing the other side zealots vastly outnumber

Damn elitist trialist prick much? Tribalism is reserved for poor people who can't afford other consoles? I can afford only the switch but I don't hate on companies like you do because I have better things to use my brain power on. Tribalism isn't reserved for people who can only afford one console, it's for people who have nothing better to do with their lives. Case in point.

@FloatingWaffles. MS made paying for online the industry standard. Both Sony and Nintendo had free online, until they caved under the pressure that MS created. They tried to get rid of used games around the time of the launch of the XB1. They were one of the first companies to introduce MTX into their games, throwing MTX into their launch title Ryse Son of Rome. You think a game is irrelevant if it doesn't run on current hardware? ROFLOLOLOL!!! Sorry, but graphics mean nothing, and a good game will remain relevant for decades. They are putting their games on gamepass day 1, because their games no longer sell well. They want you to blow your money on MTX, instead of buying the game. It's a classic strategy to milk your dying fanbase. They put their games on PC, because they can't stay afloat otherwise. XB1 did horribly, and can't support their 1st party studios alone. "This is how your trade your games", wasn't arrogant. It was a genius takedown of the BS corpo-speak nonsense that MS was selling at the time. Ah yes, the old "exclusives are evil" argument. Been there. Seen that. Make a thread on it if you like.

P.S. Why is it that everyone that takes offense to my comments has some sort of Xbox avatar?

Lmao the reason you're getting downvoted is because it's clear as day you're not arguing in good faith. The majority of your "reasoning" you give for hating Xbox is because you have convinced yourself to see anything they do in a negative light to the point where you're literally spouting false claims just because it's what you'd personally like to believe. Do you remember the "look at that bitch eating crackers" photo? That's what you're doing rn. Plus the fact that you've now resorted to bringing up 7-8+ year old shit that was under different management than the one in charge now only further proves that since you can't seemingly move on from the image you want to keep seeing.

Also I would have hoped that you would have seen the irony in claiming to not have any tribalism but then implying that anyone who calls out your bad reasoning is just an Xbox fanboy who is offended but apparently not. But yes, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. At least you made that easy.

Cerebralbore I don’t know how to tell ya this, but the reason why your comments are being responded by Xbox avatars is because you are in fact a Sony console warrior. Granted I’ve seen worse, you seem the type to deny your label. Your behaviour has the same end goal despite your disbelief: elevating your own brand, and exaggerating the faults of the competition. Your last post reeks of bias and disdain. Congrats, I officially welcome you to the console war.

@floatingwaffles Ah, I see you've gone for the "you're biased" ad hominem attack, instead of refuting anything I had to say. Each and every downvote from you single-console owning peasants is like nectar from the gods for me. Like your tears, they are delicious!

Let's see here. From the start you say you don't have any tribalism, which I was willing to believe, but then what you used to support your "points" were the following:
1) Arrogant marketing, which you provided exactly no examples of when I questioned what you consider arrogant about it then praised Sony's "this is how you share your games" video as not arrogant somehow.
2) Simply saying they have the worst platform. Great, what an incredibly insightful point. A pointless thing to say if you don't say why (and I think it's obvious why at this point from you).
3)Saying it's a pro-consumer facade, which I then listed all the things they've done and your reply is just "but there's an evil reason behind it all!111!" There's an evil reason behind it all because, again, you are convincing yourself to want to see that. They can't be doing any of the stuff they do to be doing it for their players and grow them, nah it's because secretly they are gonna fuck them all over somehow. Obviously.
4) MTX, which is the only decent point you had but you then try to use it as if it's enough to negate all the other good they do, which does not apply and make it seem like they're doing it to take advantage of people so nobody notices. As far as i'm aware they have about 4 current games that have them and they are all completely optional and don't change the game (Gears 5, however, seemed like a fuck up). I would agree they shouldn't be there at all, as the stigma around them is terrible and first party games don't need them, but painting it as if it's some sort of evil plan for them to introduce them into their games once they get people into their ecosystem aint it chief. Once again it's something you have no proof of and your only reasoning is that it must be evil because it's Microsoft.

Then when I did respond to all of these points you instead chose to double down on your belief that it all has to be negative somehow, and used false claims to do so AND even 10+ year old shit that has no relevance anymore. We all know what they tried to do with to do with the X1 and it didn't succeed, and it was different management. Yes they made paying for online the standard, but guess what? All of these were almost 10+ years ago. Using that now as if it means anything only says that you either can't move on or purposely do not want to move on. How dare Microsoft not go back in time and change that? "They are putting games on Gamepass day 1 because they no longer sell". Except all the official info we've gotten from them have been that games still do sell well, unless you wanna go the route of "MS PR is lying" which i'm fully expecting from you at this point. "They want you to blow your money on MTX, instead of buying the game. It's a classic strategy to milk your dying fanbase" If this was Microsoft's plan, why not put them in everything at that point outside of a few? You have no proof of this and it's just another assumption you're claiming is truth (like everything else you said really) because you want view it that way. THEN say that anyone who calls out your incredibly bad and selective reasoning (which is noticeable to everyone btw) is a single console "peasant" fanboy that's just angry lmao, which is also incredibly ironic considering I actually play on everything, bur I guess anyone who calls it out is gonna be that to you so you can feel better.

I at least appreciate that you made it incredibly easier to prove what I was saying during your downward spiral, so thanks for that. I don't think anyone needs to say you're biased at this point when you basically said it yourself. I would seriously recommend you take some time to yourself considering you're almost 40 years old and still acting like this, but we all know you probably won't. Guess tribalism isn't reserved for people who only have one console like you said, since have 3 according to you. Good luck, i'm not replying anymore.

1. The obvious doesn't need evidence. A quick look at MS' youtube channel will show examples of them claiming to have "the best games lineup", and "Over 100 exclusives". They might as well say "There is no war in Ba Sing Se".
   

2. Again, the obvious does not need backing up. Next thing i know you'll be demanding evidence for the earth being round.
   

3. You are convincing yourself, that I am convincing myself, that I want to see that. You don't want an honest and open discussion. Instead you want to engage in character assassination, by way of strawman.
   

4. It is enough to undo any good they have done. MTX are one of the most greedy things a company could possibly do. The only thing good that they've done in the last 7 years is Gamepass. There are many reasons why they wouldn't suddenly shove MTX into every last game they owned. Not pissing off the devs of those games is one such possible reason.
   

5. What are you even talking about? Double down? False claims? Where? Yes, yes, only immediate history matters to you. Must be fun to be young and ignorant. They could make XBL free tomorrow if they wanted. It definitely hurts them more than it hurts Sony or Nintendo.
   

6. Says I had a downward spiral. At the end of his long crybaby rant, in which he does little more than attempt to assassinate my character. Go play PUBG or CoD, like the tasteless kid I know you are.

P.S. If this weren't the comments section, I'd destroy you with multiple counterexamples, and arguments. But a quick rebuttal will have to suffice.

Sony zealots outnumber us several to one FYI

Considering the number of downvotes to people disagreeing with his self proclamation, and upvotes for who support him, I don't think the outnumbering is how you think.

You venture outside Vgchartz? YT and Twitter are the “front lines”

Duno why it had a spam of so many repeated post. I thought you were talking about here, my bad. I don't use twitter (well I created one couple months ago but follow like 4 accounts only) and I usually don't read much of the comments in YT (that I also don't use much). But I'll take your word on it that on those places there is a very big Sony fanbase that outnumber Xbox. In some fb groups in Brazil for game I have seem a lot more Xbox fans than PS, but sure that could just be my bias registering more the ones that talk bad of Sony.

How so? He’s clearly anti tribal. Xbox games launching day 1 on PC. Keeping Minecraft on PS. Honouring the multiplat contracts. Ghostwire and Deathloop staying timed on PS. Where as Sony locks Spiderman to one platform, a global IP that they only own the movie rights to. Now tell me again how Phil is more tribal then Sony. Please.

Sigh. Mentioning features your product has isn’t remotely the same as what he’s talking about. The hate that some people spread in every social media is what hems talking about.

Now, let me be clear, you are a far worse offender of what you’re talking about than Phil or MS.

Let's not be unfair Hynad, because the type of marketing MS is doing is exactly one to fuel console war. It is fair that they show their product and features, and also no problem that they brag and are proud, but to pretend they are removed or don't contribute to tribalism?

And always doing something trying to be the nice man while making it in a way that the rest are bad guys.

Few things more satisfying then Xbox gaining a new customer kicking and screaming because they feel forced lol.

While I get what you're saying, I have to disagree. Console marketing from 15, 20, 30 years ago is not responsible for a bunch of teenagers and grown adults acting ridiculous and talking total nonsense trash in 2020. For at least the last decade, all of the console marketers have been friendly. They often talk about how they own and play each other's systems and games. They publicly congratulate each other at launches and milestones, and they often publicly condemn shit talking when it gets out of hand.

So, yeah, they all played into it in the past. But that's mostly the distant past. Grown ass adults cannot point to bad behavior decades ago to justify bad behavior now.

You're not wrong. The history of videogames isn't about friendship and unicorns. Yamauchi and Nintendo wanted a monopoly through any means possible and tried to crush opposition with cutthroat tactics. Sony's entry into the industry came with mic drop ads from FF7 and Crash and an advertising blitz that directly targeted Nintendo. And Microsoft ... is Microsoft, a company with a long history of anti-consumer actions and buying out competition. Personally, I'll never forget the abomination known as "Games with Windows Live" or the ways they tried to control the PC gaming market before getting kicked in the teeth by Valve.

It's fine for Spencer to criticize such behavior now but he also need to acknowledge that the industry itself is partially responsible.

2) I vaguely recall the comment in question. But, I'm not sure that a single incident, even if somebody made a bad comment last week, means a whole lot. I don't think it's really in dispute that they are nearly always friendly with each other, at least in public forums, these days.

I will grant though that any shitty comment is a shitty comment, and certainly does not help things.

1) With respect to the difficulty holding conversations in here, you must see problems that I don't. This place certainly isn't perfect, but it works well enough..

@TalonMan Thank you for improving the layout of the comments. I find them much easier to read now. I personally don't mind not being able to reply directly to replies. I just include the person's username and that works well enough. I do have a request though: would it be possible for you to make all of the replies visible when you open an article so you don't have to click on "Show replies" for each post? Or at least include it as an option in Settings if you don't want it to be the default? I find this very annoying, especially when I go back to an older article to read new replies that have been posted. I don't know how difficult it would be for you to change but I'd really appreciate it if you could at least look into this. It would make my life so much easier!

Awesome! I'm fine with comments that have lots of downvotes being hidden but it's annoying that I have to constantly click on "Show replies" in articles with a lot of comments. It would be great if you could change that.

@TalonMan Thanks for listening to my feedback and changing how the comments are displayed. It probably seems like a pretty minor improvement but it's already making my life so much easier!

Empathy is your friend. We went through something similar