TGS, RPG's and the failure of Square-Enix - News

by VGChartz Staff , posted on 13 October 2008 / 12,554 Views

If you’re a gamer like me, you don’t really like shooting aliens from a 1st person perspective, pretending to be a bald space marine. Instead you prefer to spend your time with rather androgyn looking heroes, roaming through gigantic worlds, unraveling complex
conspiracies against all that's good while finding one's true self along the way.
None of this in real time of course, but by scrolling through complex menus for well over 50 hours.
If you’re a gamer like me, the Tokyo Game Show is the best game show of the year. And this year was no disappointment. Several great RPG’s were shown; Star Ocean 4, Arc Rise Fantasia and Oboro Muramasa for example. And, for me, RPG star of the show; White Knight Chronicles. But still, something was missing. Something has changed and one might wonder whether that has changed for good.

For over 20 years Square-Enix. is generally regarded as best developer of RPG’s. It’s definitely the most famous. During the SNES and PlayStation era’s the company (companies before the merger) ruled the RPG scene with amazing games like the Final Fantasy series,
Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Xenogears, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Romancing Saga, etc, etc, etc.

Not anymore though.
The situation on the consoles is pretty worrying. This console generation has so far seen only one (yes one!) real, full fletched RPG from Square-Enix: Infinite Undiscovery for the Xbox360. While clearly an ok selling game (it’s at 240.000 sold copies worldwide) it’s not something for SE to be proud of some two years (even three from the launch of the 360) into this console cycle. Nor is its Metacritic score of 65 Square-Enix worthy. A company like SE can’t afford to lose out on the current gen market that’s now around 70 million and growing fast. The competitors aren't standing still and are eager to take a big chunk out of SE's marketshare.
If we compare the sales of Infinite Undiscovery to Mistwalker's Lost Odyssee (750.000) or Namco's Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (240.000 in Japan alone) we can easily see that SE is slowly losing its place at the top of the RPG foodchain.
Admittedly, Square-Enix is still a very big player on the handhelds, but it's important to note that most of the handheld revenues come from remakes or even re-remakes. From a financial point of view that's fine, but it's hardly the company I fell in love with so many years ago on the SNES, and The World Ends With You alone is not enough to change that feeling.

Apperantly SE is unable to make amazing non-franchise AAA RPG's, like Chrono Trigger and Xenogears, anymore, so it has to rely on its main series.This is where the real problem lies. The question is: where is Final Fantasy XIII? Where is Kingdom Hearts?
At this moment it seems highly unlikely we'll see any of them in 2009, definitely not in the West. Tokyo Game Show came and went and still we haven't seen a single piece of gameplay footage for Final Fantasy XIII. This game has been hyped since the launch of the PS3 and all we've seen so far are a few trailers and some screenshots. Absolutely stunning, that’s for sure, but so was Final Fantasy XII a few years ago. And the bar is raised so high now, that it has become almost impossible for FFXIII to live up to the hype (something Rockstar knows a thing or two about). Sure the game will sell great, but with the expected development costs it also needs to. And it will probably also need to convince a lot of gamers that it was worth the wait AND that the Square-Enix brand can still be trusted as high quality, something that has decreased over the years. One might argue that the last really great console RPG they delivered is Dragon Quest VIII in 2004. That's not very good for a company that, contrary to a Namco, almost solely created RPG's.

Assuming that this generation will last some six years we’ll go thinking about the next-gen somewhere in 2011. Now, Sony and Nintendo might want to stretch this cycle as long as they want, the truth is that if Microsoft launches early again they could take an even bigger chunk of the market. Especially since they have performed exceptionally well, also on the JRPG front (who would have thought two years ago that the American console would be the main platform for JRPG’s?). If Square-Enix keeps its current pace, it will have made only one or two main series Final Fantasies (PS1 and PS2 had 3 each) and one Kingdom Hearts (2 on PS2) in the current generation. Sure, quality goes above quantity for gamers, but shareholders want to see money and won’t understand why the main assets aren’t used like they were before. Sure Star Ocean 4 and The Last Remnant will probably sell decently, but these won't be nearly enough to bring SE back to the levels of revenue where it once was.

What might be more worrying for SE’s shareholders is that it’s the only big Japanese company that hasn’t announced a big budget game for Wii. Now I don’t want to argue whether SE’s games are more suited towards the higher horsepower machines, cause that’s only a matter of taste. What is a fact though is that the general JRPG sells over 50% in the motherland. And there the Wii is destroying both PS3 and 360. Without serious Wii support Square Enix is ignoring a huge chunk of the market and the sales of Dragon Quest: Swords show the abundance of SE fans on the system. Also the sales of Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World must be re-assuring. It is a pretty big success for a spin-off of a moderately successful series. Besides this Namco has Fragile: Farewell Ruins of the Moon and the next main series Tales planned for Wii. And Namco is not the only one believing in Wii. Capcom changed its most important Japanese title, Monster Hunter 3, from PS3 to Wii. Marvelous is getting even crazier. They have as of now 5 RPG’s in the making for Nintendo’s ducktaped machine: Little King Story, Oboro Muramasa Youtoden, Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga, Arc Rise Fantasia and Rune Factory. At this moment it looks like Wii will be the console of choice in Japan, and whether SE likes it or not it will have to release triple A games for the system to remain competitive for marketshare.

It’s not only on Wii though where the competition is planning to make inroads into SE's marketshare, Mistwalker has definitely had success on 360, as has Namco. And Sega has had some moderate success on PS3 with Valkyrie Chronicles. If Square-Enix keeps delaying its titles and keeps delivering sub-Square-Enix quality it is in a real danger of alienating the RPG fanbase from its brand. Most of the current gamers have never played Final Fantasy 7, and might be less inclined to buy into the series on the name alone.

So will Marvelous, Level 5, Namco or Mistwalker take the crown? Sure nothing in RPG land is nearly as big as Final Fantasy, but the insane amount of spin-offs and remakes has somewhat damaged its image and there doesn't seem to be a lot of urgency to release any info, let alone the game, in the near future. Square-Enix has put all its eggs, and then some, in one mighty expensive basket. We'll have yet to see whether it will pay-off, but I'm convinced that the mighty Square-Enix of the last three generations is no more.

Comments, questions or remarks regarding this article or vgchartz; email bcornelisse@vgchartz.com

104 Comments

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mmolichking1 (on 17 February 2009)

vivian (on 08 January 2009)

raiseplease (on 19 November 2008)

The reason is that they are focusing on handhelds for their original content because it's both cheaper and easier to develop than their monster next-gen titles. The nintendo ds for example has almost too many SE games, and all are pretty high quality.

the world is not enough
ff 3
ff IV
FFXII revenant wings
heroes of mana
magical starsign
DQ rocket slime
DQ joker, and the remakes of past DQ games.
FF crystal chronicles
FF tactics 2

These are a few i can think of. SE even published space invaders extreme, now that they own taito.

The games are there, and are good, but it just is hard to make the big budget games now. Remember how hard it was to make ff 12?

swyggi (on 15 October 2008)

@MANUELF

Quality-wise not sales-wise.

MANUELF (on 14 October 2008)

I like how all say the biggest RPGs series are FF, DQ, KH but all forget about the biggest in Japan and in the world Pokemon.

Pristine20 (on 14 October 2008)

no doubt, they've definitely lost "it" i.e almost all their talent

Goddbless (on 14 October 2008)

I guess SE is taking long with FF because HD development takes a while. It seems with the Wii the development is closer to last gen games so they can get those out quickly. I don't see the reason for SE hate though. They are making tons of money off the FF remakes. They could remake FF7 and make boatloads of cash so I don't see how they are in trouble.

swyggi (on 14 October 2008)

From verivius

"Well, I think if SE wasn't involved the other RPG devs wouldn't have to have to worry about being overshadowed by style over substance CG videos. Maybe then they would be able to get the sales they deserve and take more risk."

They aren't getting the sales they want because they aren't making RPG's appealing enough to the mainstream gamer and they aren't doing enough new things in games either. SE makes RPG's accessible and easier to play, that's why SE makes great sales. To hook new gamers you usually need to do something different, which SE has been known for in the past and even today.

Gorgory (on 14 October 2008)

@hanafuda: Soul Eater isn't even an original IP from them! Square-Enix just bought the license and made a crappy game. You live in Japan and you should know (Famitsu review=low, no ads at all)... The game is a piece of crap!!

That shows that Wii owners aren't stupid. Square-Enix are the stupid here.

Jo21 (on 14 October 2008)

the only problem SE its having the huge time they are using to release their games.
there are the RPG kings of the hill and companies like namco and tales only sell at games as grandia or infinity undiscovery.

not KH, FF, Star Ocean 3, dragon quest.

not matter how long they take they will sell millions.

hanafuda (on 14 October 2008)

shocking, but I agree with shams.

DQIX will be huge, and so will the FFXIII games.

Dissidia is going to be big too.

They are testing the water on other platforms. Don't forget Soul Eater just bombed on Wii in Japan.

NightDragon83 (on 14 October 2008)

I don't see dire straits or anything like that for the company... but the one major problem I see with S/E is that this generation has completely thrown their business strategy out the window.

Since its inception, Square (and also Enix) has had a one company / one platform approach... they released games almost exclusively for Nintendo systems starting with NES and then SNES, and then once Square left Nintendo for greener pastures for Sony, the PS1 and PS2 became the exclusive home to all SE games, handhelds withstanding.

This generation has changed all that, because Sony is no longer the dominant console maker, that belongs to Nintendo once again, BUT their system is geared more to the "casual" market in general than to the core gamer market that plays most S/E RPGs, especially here in the West. And then there's Microsoft, who leads Sony in 2 out of the 3 regions in installed base and basically splits the primary demographic for S/E's games right down the middle. Thus, releasing games exclusively for one system is no longer a viable business option, which is why we've seen their flagship title FFXIII jump to multiplatform status as well as more support for the 360 and to a lesser extent the Wii.

elonzo (on 14 October 2008)

All of you posters have not even mentioned that the reason SE has fallen off and is taking so long with games is because it is extremely difficult to make AAA titles on the PS3. PS3 is hard to develop for and even more so for a company revered for mind blowing technical showcases every time they make a FF game. FF is coming to 360 because its easier to develop for.

arsenal009 (on 14 October 2008)

Well with all their remakes & re-remakes this is definitely their most profitable gen :p

Besides they came out with a great new ip "the world ends with you" in 07. Also, DQ9 is coming out in 09.

spinoffs like DQ swords, FF fables for wii, a couple FF for psp, 4 FF for ds, & 2 DQ for ds means they're still making new games that sell profitably.

verivius (on 14 October 2008)

swyggi says:

"there's nothing to show that if SE left, there would be better JRPG's."

Well, I think if SE wasn't involved the other RPG devs wouldn't have to have to worry about being overshadowed by style over substance CG videos. Maybe then they would be able to get the sales they deserve and take more risk.

swyggi (on 14 October 2008)

From verivius
<i>Remember in the NES and SNES era, where Square and Enix were still competing with each other and everyone else? That's when the best JRPGs came out. If SE is removed then it will be back a bunch of smaller JRPG studios competing for our attention again. This will lead to better JRPGs.</i>

That really doesn't make any sense. This isn't the NES/SNES era and there's nothing to show that if SE left, there would be better JRPG's. Hell, the best JRPG's so far this year are on handhelds BY SE. ToV and LO are good, but nothing special and innovative like TWEWY.

Naum (on 14 October 2008)

they make way to few turn-based RPG's these days ... :(

haven't played a decent one since FFX (on console and no remakes)

Snake612 (on 14 October 2008)

Beja Beja is right. Square Enix needs to step their game up.

verivius (on 14 October 2008)

People need to have faith that JRPGs can flourish once SE is gone. It's like starting from the beginning again.

Remember in the NES and SNES era, where Square and Enix were still competing with each other and everyone else? That's when the best JRPGs came out. If SE is removed then it will be back a bunch of smaller JRPG studios competing for our attention again. This will lead to better JRPGs.

Mistwalker, Atlus, Namco and Konami has already proven they have what it takes to make great titles with games like Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Vesperia, Persona 3 and 4, Lost Odyssey and Suikoden series.

It's time for SE to fall. They're just a bad influence now.

yushire (on 14 October 2008)

Its odd that a publisher that only known to publish anime games like DBZ, Naruto, Gundam, Haruhi, etc...(Namco bandai) and a niche publisher that only make and publish niche and unpopular games(marvelous Entertainment) actually surpassed Square Enix in their own turf(JRPGs). I think Squeenix should re-evaluate themselves, after Final Fantasy X and Kingdom Hearts Squeenix is becoming stale. Final fantasy X-2 wasnt bad but its not great either for me its only average and Final fantasy XII was just meh...

radha (on 14 October 2008)

@ shio
How old are you? 12?

woopah (on 14 October 2008)

im sure SE will put out more games for sony and nintendo consoles. until then PS3 will have level 5 and wii will have namco/marvellous

vizunary (on 14 October 2008)

I have lost all faith in Sqeenix... =(

zeross (on 14 October 2008)

SE have put too much hope into sony's ps3 ?

star ocean 4
unfinite discovery
last remnant

are on ps3 ?

don't worry ... level 5 is the new SquareEnix

Plezbo (on 14 October 2008)

"Square/Enix have never been regarded as the best RPG developer... Black Isle, Bioware and Blizzard have higher reputation when it comes to RPGs."

Do you have to troll so poorly? Seriously, thats not even that funny, had you said Namco-Bandai maybe you would have inflamed some people, but you didn't even get any of the FF-nerds angry. If you are serious you must be 8, just learned to read, and have never played a SNES or PS game.

Onimusha12 (on 14 October 2008)

This is new to you damn people?

Square-Enix has not only been on a downhill decline in the quality and integrity of thier products, but have become so invested in this white elephant Final Fantasy 13 they don't even have the resources make half of their games without exporting development to outside developers like Level 5 and Tri-Ace. The only thing Square-Enix themselves have been able to work on in the interlude are cheap to develop games on the handhelds and cellphones, most of which are just remakes.

Face it, Square-Enix has been little more than a joke since Sakaguchi left after the failure of The Spirits Within. My condolences to those who honestly still think the games are anything more than mediocre triumphs riding the coat tails of franchises that used to mean something.

They're a developer who doesn't even give too much thought about the Western Market, never releasing the special editions of any of their games in the west and denying us the complete versions of games like Dragon Quest 4. Not only can't they make the same quality games they used to but they can't even be bothered to bring the full versions to the west.

Konami is another developer on a similar decline, so vested they were they in MGS4 that for the entirety of the time between MGS3 and MGS4's release, the only real notable games they released were cheap handheld games. Silent Hill, a franchise already on the decline was being outsourced to other developers and even in Metal Gear Solid 4's wake, Konami has little more to brag about other than the travesty of Silent Hill Homecoming and the questionable Castlevania fighting Game for the Wii. How could they neglect all their franchises for so long to the point of near self destruction.

Capcom I fear is headed down the same path, their risk management of games and game quality (especially in regards to localization) is becoming an ever greater issue, but for the moment they remain fairly productive.

Plezbo (on 14 October 2008)

SE's problem is that anymore it only goes for the out of the ballpark homerun. Whatever game it makes, it has to be so chock full of special effects and the best graphics out there that it takes forever to make. Other companies make these games too, but they also make cell shaded beauties and other artistically inspired games that may not be photo realisitic, but are visually pleasing in their own right AND dont use all of a systems horsepower, or 5 years of development.. SE needs to make more small time budget games by diversifying its offerings. Anything it releases anymore is visually up to par with whatever Final Fantasy that was just released. Hell, I'd take a 2D sprite based game if they just made the visuals sharp and crisp. Throw in some anime cut scenes and its lights out. square needs to stop swinging for the fence and learn to double down the line, after all, we RPG-freakers really were happier in the 90's, and not every game on SNES and PS had the same ridiculous visuals that the FF's had.

Rei (on 14 October 2008)

BengaBenga:

You are calling DQVIII the last good SE's game, while I have enjoyed KH2, FFXII and Crisis Core after. And judging by the sales of these games - I am far from being alone in this. It is true what SE's main games take long to develop, but considering how good these games are it is understable why it takes so long to make them.

Last generation there was only one console SE paid attention to, now there are five. And they have strong upcoming titles for 4 of them. The thing I can agree with in your article is lack of Wii's support. SE have obviously not expected Wii to be that successfull and so SE have put too much hope into Sony's PS3. They are probably regretting about this now, but it is an easy thing to change - look at Capcom and Monster Hunter 3.

Also I doubt what you can name me one japanese company which manages to do great on all 5 current-gen systems. And for SE, a company known for their jRPGs - handhelds are more important now.

Home-consoles need more time to estabilish themselves in Japan, especially PS3 and 360. And so Square-Enix needs more time to launch their flagship titles for these platforms, the time you are sadly not willing to give them, judging by this article.

Flash (on 14 October 2008)

I'm pretty sure DQ8 was developed by Level 5 and published by Square-Enix, and that DQ9 is also the same situation.

I'd have to agree that SE seem to definately be in decline in terms of quality new titles.

swyggi (on 14 October 2008)

<i>It is strange that SE miss the Wii market. I think some of the SE decision makers are not very wise. :)</i>

And yet you're smiling about it >_>

BengaBenga (on 14 October 2008)

Rei:

I think I made it pretty clear what I meant by losing it. For one, the article doesn't say a thing about a SE bankrupcy, cause that's definitely not going to happen. I also don't say all games suck. And in case you're wondering: I love SE, that's why I'm dissapointed.

I think I made it pretty clear that I was talking mainly about consoles, although most of my complaints are also applicable on the handhelds, namely a lack of innovation, quality and creativity.

I don't know where the bias is you see. In my opinion (and of course I totally respect that of others) SE hasn't made a great RPG since DQ8 in 2004. And I do agree that there are no bigger RPG series than FF, DQ and KH. That's the whole point of the article! I wonder why SE is even unable to show the one big triple A console game they're working on.

I really would love for SE to make something of the quality of Xenogears or Chrono Trigger again. Sadly I don't see that happening. If you do, that's great, but my hope is on FF13, and I'm sure it will be great, but I fear that it will be the only FF we'll see this gen and thereby it will be one of the very few AAA Square Enix RPG of this gen.

(note: until proven otherwise, I consider VS13 to be an action game)

And yes I praise Level 5, cause they've shown what looks like an amazing RPG, including gameplay and comparing DQ: Swords to ToS2 is ridiculous. They're not even the same genre and definitely not in the same level qualitywise. By the way, they're also the ones making that game you're praising: DQ9.

Rei (on 14 October 2008)

Its funny how people talk about SE's bankcrupcy, considering what they tried to buy out Tecmo for $200m. a few months ago.

With releases of Dissidia and Chrono Trigger in December and DQIX, SO4 and Advent Children Complete in March 2009 I thikn its pretty clear what fiscal 2008 is a successfull year for Square-Enix.

And if OP really thinks what SE "loses it", I would like to know who "gets it" instead? There are no jRPGs which can come close to FF/DQ/KH in terms of success. The article is trying to bash Square-Enix based on the fact what their games are still in development. Also completely misses the fact what this generation japanese gamers prefer handhelds over home-consoles. And funny how he praises level-5 who didnt release a single console game yet, and how he bashes that DQ spinoff on the Wii and then praises Tales of game for it, considering what the latter sold much less.

I am sorry but i cant take this article seriously, it is completely biased and misses too many facts.

wii4ever (on 14 October 2008)

It is not about bankrupty. Just very odd that they totally ignore WII...or create games secretly without adding the hype, following Nintendo's trend to not announce a game if it is not very close to release date.

gengka (on 14 October 2008)

they wont bankrupt dude, the ff13 deal with the 360 gives them lots of chingkies ;)

sorento (on 14 October 2008)

why square don't support wii ?

jman8 (on 14 October 2008)

Kingdom Hearts: BBS (PSP), FFXIII Agito (PSP), Kingdom Hearts 358/2 (DS), DQIX (DS), FF: Dissidia (PSP), Star Ocean IV (360), Last Remnant (PS360), Parasite Eve 3 (PSP), FFXIII (PS360), FFvXIII (PS3) all coming out between now and probably the end of 2011. That's a lot of titles. Sure, Squenix has been slow to release new stuff so far this generation, but if anything, TGS shows us there's finally stuff on the horizon.

shoeboxscrap (on 14 October 2008)

if they released crappy nes dragon warrior 1 on wii vc they'd make millions. i dont think they need money right now. they make so much on ds and psp they're probably gonna milk the last couple years of this generation. how many years was ps2 out before ffX came out? then XI and XII followed right after.

.jayderyu (on 14 October 2008)

I remember making a post not to long ago about SE business model and it's inevitablity. I stand by that statement and this article only further backs up my claim.

SE cinematic game developement CAN NOT be limited to such a small base. SE NEEDS to go FULL MULTIPLATFORM. the game are just too expensive to not reach all console players.

z101 (on 14 October 2008)

It is strange that SE miss the Wii market. I think some of the SE decision makers are not very wise. :)

Jason77 (on 14 October 2008)

actually i think SE is not that bad,
aren't they had large sum of money from MS for exclusively games?
i think those money had enough for SE to survive couples of century.

Tyrannical (on 14 October 2008)

Take a mediocre PS2 bound JRPG.
Cheaper and quicker to make a HD 360 JRPG game instead of a PS3.
Maybe the PS3 version would sell more, but not enough more to make up for the added expense of developing on the PS3.

ivo (on 14 October 2008)

i bought every final fantasy title since ff7 including the classics on the ps1. but now they bring like 4 or 5 ff on de DS a year.
too much.
i'm still waiting for ff13 though. I really loved ff12. but 2 games in the ff13 series at the same time??? better focus on one great title!!

konnichiwa (on 14 October 2008)

Well they release FFIII and FFIV on DS can't say those game dissapointed me somehow. They are just working on so many games. I think the wait is going to be worth it.

wii4ever (on 14 October 2008)

Well why i think that SE loses its dominance on rpgs because they stayed ps exlusive all those years. The market changed and ps is not the number one player, so they lose fans who prefer other platforms. In a desperate move they start (rather late) to develop for 360 but they diddn't get the success they deserve. The only market they make a lot of money is DS market. I think that when SE understands that ps is no longer the emperor they will do much better. And there is WII for gods sake. 40 millions already and still fast growing. Marvelous and Namco have made their moves towards WII and i think they will gain money and success. The only other rpg player that still has not clear what is its system of choice is Atlus. And i believe Atlus' profile match exactly with WII.

KBG29 (on 14 October 2008)

IMO Square needs to stop trying to re-invent the RPG every time out. The only to FF's I have ever like was FFVII, and FFX. IMO FFXII was the a sign that the series was in major trouble. Everything that made FF special to me had been completly ruined in that game. The story, and the world were nothing to brag about, and the battle system got completly ruined.

I to agree Square is in a bad spot. They have become a money hore this generation, and I think that it is going to be take now pay later. In the end I will not be surprised if they have to be bailed out yet again, and this time I don't think there will be much left of this once great company. To me Square looks like it could be the next Rare, but they can save the ship.

To get out of this hole they need to find one console and stick to it, or stick to one game per console. Right now they are trying to go after way to many projects at once, and the picture is pretty clear that they don't have enough talent to make all of them S-E quality. Right now it is only a matter of time. Without a new leader that is willing to cut the dead wait and focus on what makes S-E special, they will fall, and be bought out. I dread the day of S-E under EA or Activision.

Sullla (on 14 October 2008)

@outlawauron, that's why I said this:

"That's not to say they're losing money, thanks to the constant stream of DS and PSP remakes. But they've had exactly zero successful console games so far this generation[...]"

Square is one of the few developers constantly turning a profit, and their handheld strategy has been extremely successful. But this topic is entirely about CONSOLES, which really have been a dismal failure.

As I said in my initial post, Square had more games sell 4m copies (five: FFX, FFX-2, DQ8, KH, KH2) on the PS2 than Konami, Capcom, Namco-Bandai, Ubisoft, Activision, Take-Two, and Sony. They don't have even a single million seller yet on ANY of the three current consoles. It's a stunning fall from prominence. You can't spin that positively. You just can't.

reptile168 (on 14 October 2008)

Well, dragon quest is the most important rpg in Japan and thanks to its amazing sales in Japan, it covers the weak sales in America and Europe so that it's close in worldwide sales to Final fantasy

mamboula (on 14 October 2008)

I very love SquareEnix, but, this time...
Square broke is biggest liscenc, Final Fantasy, on litle console like wii and... xbox 360.
I think SQUARE have to stay on sony consoles, he is more powerfull and better image.
And square is the company i know have the better grafic in game.
Sony rules, and Square go down, watch out SE, consentrate you on big liscence like final fantasy.
And when I said Final Fantasy, is not chocobo storys, and chrystal chronicles

outlawauron (on 13 October 2008)

@ Sulla

Do PSP and DS not count as this generation? Cause Crisis Core wants a word with you.

Dgc1808 (on 13 October 2008)

Once they started getting trounced in the RPG department on consoles by another company they'll realize they need to get their act together.

Garcian Smith (on 13 October 2008)

@ Sky Render: There's actually a lot of innovative JRPG-style games coming to the Wii. Dokapon Kingdom seems to be the multiplayer RPG that DQ9 should have been; Little King's Story looks to be an intriguing simulation-RPG; Muramasa may well be the shot in the arm that Japanese action-RPGs need (and that Odin Sphere wasn't, due to its unfortunate technical problems); Kizuna looks to be the closest thing to high art that we've seen from the genre so far; and so forth.

Note, however, that all of these games are from smaller developers or development teams. Traditional JRPGs are, in fact, stale, and companies other than S-E are beginning to take notice.

jerry133 (on 13 October 2008)

I disagree. You compare Lost Odyssey to Infinite Undiscovery. Certainly 500k + is ok but the Xbox has never sold JRPGS well. Thats probably because the first system was marketed as 'hardcore' FPS, sports games, and (she kicks high fighting games) And besides how was Lost Odyssey marketed? From the creator of Final Fantasy so aside from the platform (Xbox) the comparison is unfair. Not every company can have blockbuster megaton announcements at every press announcement. If they announced a FFVII remake would any of their upcoming games sell or would everyone just wait for that release? Sorry Square is doing just fine, ask the half million people still paying and playing FF11 even with the release of Wow. Plus I'm sure they make a little off of all the licensed toys, music, art books, etc.

Zugdar (on 13 October 2008)

Great post. Well said!

jonager (on 13 October 2008)

i really miss the old square titles like vagrant storty, btw they should make a sequel

Sky Render (on 13 October 2008)

That's an ironic statement, errorrr. Wii games are in fact the only ones that get any noticeable upgrade in visual quality from the jump to Progressive Scan. This is because the difference between 640x480 interlaced and 640x480 progressive is more or less the same as the difference between 320x240 and 640x480, whereas the difference between 1920x1080 and 640x480 (from the perspective of a non-enthusiast) is virtually indistinguishable. About all that changes when you upscale a 360 or PS3 game, at least to somebody who has not trained their eyes to spot the difference, is that the text becomes more readable.

errorrrr (on 13 October 2008)

Adoption rate of HD TV set is not as fast as Sony anticipated therefore the consumer and developers aren't really UP for the PS3 just yet... btw, what's the adoption rate of HD TVs in Japan? I though they already broadcast solely on digital lines now... I mean how can anyone bare to look at wii games on a HDTV... it just looks horrible...

ctk495 (on 13 October 2008)

Hey everyone that is talking thrash about square leave them alone ok.There are the best third party I would want all of you to do what they do.There awesome they brought us FF,DQ,KH and alot other great franchises. insulting square is like insulting your parent even WORST.By the way for everyone complaining about kh3 not being annouce then you should think that the team is working in Versus plus they've already announce 3 portable kh games.If someone deserve being bash it's certainly not square they rock,And now they didn't fail they just don't have anything to announce.LEAVE THEM ALONE.

SQUARE ENIX DEFENSE FORCE

Kaixes (on 13 October 2008)

I'm never going to give up on Square-Enix. They're the company that got me into RPGs with Kingdom Hearts and FFX and that's simply that. I've played most of their games twice, maybe even thrice or even more just because they were so good. But I will have to say that this article is very accurate. The last time I finished a Square-Enix game and selected "New Game" was... a couple of years back with KH2? Gosh its been a while. They've definitely screwed themselves up, but I'm still keeping faith that they'll pull themselves out of this slump. If porting the older Fantasies to the DS is a means to help them find that magic again, then it's fine by me. I'm sure they'll find the original Squaresoft that was inside them eventually.

Sky Render (on 13 October 2008)

The simplified RPG (aka. JRPG) genre in general has gone terribly stale, I find. I don't think it's fair to just blame Square-Enix; every JRPG-making studio out there is adding to the problem by not innovating in a way that customers value.

Take a look at the history of JRPGs, and at the true milestone games. You find the likes of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy setting the trends for turn-based RPGs, and the likes of Tales of Phantasia setting the stage for action RPGs, but where has the true innovation been since? The sub-systems have gotten more complex, and the turn-based and action RPG models have been marginally improved over the years, but there are still only two popular variants of JRPG: turn-based and action.

The genre needs a reboot, badly. A step away from all of the traditional models that have grown stale, and a reimagining of what "role-playing game" even means. The solution will likely be called a "non-RPG" by RPG enthusiasts, but it may well save a dying genre that has overshot the mass market as badly as the HD consoles have.

FreeTalkLive (on 13 October 2008)

But Mr. Smith, what about the new Final Fantasy game for DS that will work with the Wii? Also, let us not forget TWEWY. I agree completely about DQ. Frankly, there has never been a better time for DQ fans. With 3 remakes that seem to get better and better and a brand new one coming next year.

Also, thank you Square for releasing good games on the VC :)

Batman...WTF? (on 13 October 2008)

I'm pretty sure if we went to the headquarters of Square Enix, we'd find them huddled in a corner, all insane, drooling, and holding a copy of Kingdom Hearts III, and playing with a dead mouse.

Godot (on 13 October 2008)

I agree with the article.

More than anything, SE are fucking slow...

Level 5 and Namco are much faster to produce games.

cwbys21 (on 13 October 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly with freetalklive. you don't need to mess with touch screen and dual screen much in a remake and they expect full price because they are 3d now (at least 4 was, unsure of 3) and 4 had voice acting. hell if anyone should have a beef with pricing it is psp users who had pretty much a straight port of 1 and 2 with a little bit of make up instead of making it completely 3d.

Garcian Smith (on 13 October 2008)

FreeTalkLive: I disagree wholeheartedly. As I said, the Final Fantasy remakes for DS barely even use the second screen or stylus, and now they expect us to pay full retail price for what's basically a straight port of a fifteen-year-old game. And let's not even mention Chocobo Tales.

The only good stuff has really been coming from Enix - I'm thinking specifically of the Dragon Quest spinoffs. DQ9 also looked interesting - that is, before the fanboy whining made them turn it from a promising multiplayer-oriented action-RPG to the exact same thing that we've been served for the previous eight iterations, only on the DS.

FreeTalkLive (on 13 October 2008)

I think Square is doing amazing stuff on DS. It is just easier for Square to make money on DS than the HD consoles so that is where Square is putting there best RPGs right now. Square is releasing top quality FF, DQ, and CT games for the DS along with great original stuff.

FinalEvangelion (on 13 October 2008)

SE is definitely getting a little cocky, much like Sony at the beginning of this generation. They need some good kicking from competition, and they will be better again.

dib8rman (on 13 October 2008)

Wow, I honestly stopped reading at: "If your a gamer like me." suprised this cought so many eyes.

Rei (on 13 October 2008)

Square-Enix hasnt made Infinite Undiscovery, but the OP seems to completely miss that, and so the whole article becomes stupid.

Famitsu's readers most anticipated games:

Final Fantasy XIII (PS3, Square Enix)
Dragon Quest IX (NDS, Square Enix)
Biohazard 5 / Resident Evil 5 (PS3, Capcom)
Dragon Quest VI (NDS, Square Enix)
Super Robot Taisen Z (PS2, Namco Bandai)
Monster Hunter 3 (Wii, Capcom)
Chrono Trigger (NDS, Square Enix)
The Last Remnant (PS3, Square Enix)
Final Fantasy Versus XIII (PS3, Square Enix)
Pokemon Platinum (NDS, Pokemon)
Animal Forest (Wii, Nintendo)
Dissidia Final Fantasy (PSP, Square Enix)
Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3, Capcom)
Star Ocean: The Last Hope (X360, Square Enix)
Tales of Hearts (NDS, Namco Bandai)

Sullla (on 13 October 2008)

Oh I agree absolutely with Benga's editorial. Square has screwed up bigtime this generation, and it's going to take them a long time to recover. That's not to say they're losing money, thanks to the constant stream of DS and PSP remakes. But they've had exactly zero successful console games so far this generation, and that's hard to fathom from a third-party company that produced five (FIVE!) different games of 4m or more sales on PS2. That's more than Take-Two, more than Konami, more than Capcom, more than Ubisoft, more than Activision, more than Sony itself!

Quick, what's the top-selling Square game released so far on one of the current consoles? Give up? It's Dragon Quest Swords, the cheap cash-in Wii title that sold 710k. That's the best that Square has done so far. What an embarassment.

Seriously, what happened to this company?! They used to be huge...

SaviorX (on 13 October 2008)

When I was a kid, and looked at the boxes for games that had Squaresoft on them, I was sure I had a quality game in my hands.

I haven't even had a current-gen Square Enix game in my hands yet.

ClaudeLv250 (on 13 October 2008)

This article is pretty exaggerated.

For one, Square Enix did not create, develop, and does not own Infinite Undiscovery. They stepped in as publisher sometime late last year, most likely on Microsoft's request since they own the IP and commisioned tri-Ace in the first place. So it makes very little since to take a game they have no active involvement in the development of and compare it to games that don't have this situation or even make claims using metacritic list wars or sales. SE didn't make it so it makes little sense to use it as a standard.

Saleswise Dragon Quest Swords was the best selling 3rd party game on a home console in Japan through 2007 and into 2008 until MGS4 came around. They seem to be doing pretty fine in that respect, especially considering that the Wii is the only console in Japan that's not tanking. And despite what the depressed fanatics say, I can tell you right now that SE has several large Wii projects in development that will most likely be announced before the Jump Festa.

Seraphic_Sixaxis (on 13 October 2008)

Gotta say RPG's in general has lost its touch on the home consoles, lets hope they get better at some point though.

cwbys21 (on 13 October 2008)

No big news from SE, or not the big news you want? I think that article set the tone for some comments that make you wonder if the people leaving said comments are working at full capacity and this may be a break out the popcorn type of thread.

We need to remember (as frustrating as it is) that SE has been working on the Crystal Tools engine a lot recently so that would be slowing down development of key franchises as they have the best talent in the company. Add into that they are working on a new MMO (needs lots of resources), just released an expansion to their old MMO, working on two big FF games, DQ9, and lots of other hand held games and they have a lot going on right now.

Would I prefer they focused on less games with more people? Yes. But would those games be better with more people? Who knows. To many cooks in the kitchen make for a bad meal.

Jo21 (on 13 October 2008)

also TGS WAS shown in tgs, but on closed doors.
:(

ROBOTECHHEAVEN (on 13 October 2008)

i think square-enix just needs to work on fewer titles and make sure the quality is very good and release them. get back to the basics when they would release good/very good/great games on a yearly basis. if they dont do something soon, namco or mistwalker or bioware will take their rpg crown from them. i personally think mistwalker with its "lost odyssey" and namco with "tales of vesperia" , are 2 perfect examples for square-enix to look at if they want too make great rpg's again.

Bobbuffalo (on 13 October 2008)

I do liked FFCC: echoes of time :(

;)

atma998 (on 13 October 2008)

What? DQIX, the biggest RPG in the last few years, is coming soon. SE will dominate again for a couple of years that's for sure.

Cougarman (on 13 October 2008)

@shio his obviously talking about JRPG's not WRPG's, even RPG'S in general square were were respected.

Tuanniez (on 13 October 2008)

@Trestres

You want S-E to go bankrupt? I'm not sure about you, but the day that happens, will be a sad day in gaming history for me.

Garcian Smith (on 13 October 2008)

Square never had it in the first place. They had one gimmick - pretty, pre-rendered/pre-scripted visuals - and they rode it out far past its welcome. It also doesn't help that they absolutely refuse to support the Wii, that their DS support has been shoddy (the FFIII/FFIV remakes barely even use the second screen), and that they've hemorrhaged pretty much anybody of any notable talent.

ROBOTECHHEAVEN (on 13 October 2008)

i think square-enix needs to work on fewer games and get them out instead of, spreading themselves so thin. as for the 360 wether ppl like it or not the best rpg's this gen will be on the 360, and it seems the wii will come in 2nd in the rpg catergory. i think sony could help themselves in japan and move alot of consoles, if they would just remake "legend of dragoon" for the ps3 or announce a sequel and a date for it, i for sure would glady buy it. anyways square-enix really needs to get back to what made them so great and release quality rpg's every year, and then they would be back on top as the best rpg developer. i think namco and mistwalker could take the crown sooner if they dont do something fast.

shio (on 13 October 2008)

Square/Enix have never been regarded as the best RPG developer... Black Isle, Bioware and Blizzard have higher reputation when it comes to RPGs.

Munkeh111 (on 13 October 2008)

That should say completion... sorry

Munkeh111 (on 13 October 2008)

Good article, they do seriously need to get their act together and deliver, or they may (they already are) lose their reputation entirely outside of FF games

It will be interesting to see how TLR sells, especially as it is coming to PS3 as well in only a few months, and as it is an "RPG for the world" so hopefully that can bring a bit of life back into them, but they just need to get on with XIII

About XIII they have confirmed it for a 2009 release in Japan, and there will be a demo out in March, so they can't be that far away from completiong

darthdevidem01 (on 13 October 2008)

cool....but never forget Pokemone is at the top JRPG's wise....I know you know that n ofcourse there's not point in even writing it as it is well granted....but just sayin

libellule (on 13 October 2008)

Dragon quest
Last remanant
SO4

not so bad ...

ecurbj (on 13 October 2008)

The RPG genre has fell off ever since Final Fantasy XII...what a shame, I have now declared to myself. I'm never picking up or playing a RPG again, do to the bored these RPG's today. I miss the FFVII, FFVIII, FFX days!!

DMeisterJ (on 13 October 2008)

Nice write-up.

But I do have one quip:

360 does have the bulk of JRPG support, but we can all agree, that a good portion (maybe all) of these games have had paid, exclusivity contracts to go along with it. And with MS stating how they aren't going to curb spending in the EDD because of the lack of money it makes, it means that JRPGs won't flock to the 360 because of the almighty (lol) dollar.

I'm predicting a massive uptake for Wii JRPG support from lots of developers, as they're not going to be promised cash from MS, and the games will most likely sell more than 200k or 300k since the Wii userbase is oh, 8 or 9 times higher than that of the 360's. I mean, Wii JRPGs in Japan could potentially sell over a million units, while no 360 game has, is going to, or will do that, given the install base.

This year will be telltale about JRPG support on the HD consoles. HD support will be waning on PS360 (moreso 360 as the console has sold so little in the rising sun land), and gaining for the Wii.

Once third-parties see the success that MH3 will bring to the Wii, Japanese developers will be scrambling to put their JRPGs on the console.

shams (on 13 October 2008)

I can't believe the over exaggeration about SE from TGS.

Don't the other platforms count anymore? Apart from Ninty, I have more SE games than any other - with more coming all the time. Yes they may be remakes - but I never played them before, so I don't care. Children of Mana, Revenant Winds, FF4... and now DQ4.

If anything, they are simply working on TOO many titles at once - so its going to take them longer to get quality titles out.

And the biggest selling game in Japan next year WILL be from SE - DragonQuest IX. DS >>> Wii, never forget that.

trestres (on 13 October 2008)

SE will go bankrupt after this gen, and hopefully it won't be saved this time. I agree and share your views 100%. Great article that shows the truth about SE and possibly its last moments.

Beja-Beja (on 13 October 2008)

Square needs to stop dicking around and get to serious development on key titles and stcik to the strategy that worked best. Releasing games in a timely fashion, not too many remakes, and fast localization.

I'm all for multiplat development but delaying FF13 in the West is a dumb move and i hope it fails. Get on the ball SE and off the shit.

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