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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How would a console mainline Fire Emblem game be successful? Will we ever see one again?

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Will we see another Fire Emblem console game again?

Yes, and it will be a suc... 11 20.00%
 
Yes, but with a completely different style 6 10.91%
 
Yes, but not on the Wii U 23 41.82%
 
No. 9 16.36%
 
See Results 6 10.91%
 
Total:55

(Warning this is going to be a LOOOOOOOONG opening) Anyone out there who lives in Japan and/or has played Fates already (No spoilers, PLEASE)
Based on the following article:
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fire-emblem-wii-u-why-we-probably-wont-see-console-fire-emblem-after-fates-478954

As a fan of the series, it brings me great joy that it has grown and expanded the way it has, especially considering the circumstances surrounding the fate (no pun intended) of the series during development for Awakening. Up to that point, the FE series has never had any real success, the closest it ever got was Fire Emblem on the GameBoy Advance that sold .97 million, which fell just short of 1 million, which is usually the minimum magic mark that a game needs to reach in order to be considered a success., financially speaking anyways.
And since then the series was on a downward spiral, with Sacred Stones selling .89 million. Shadow Dragon sold just .61 million despite being on the DS. Path of Radiance sold just .51 on the GameCube. And Radiant Dawn, despite being on the Wii sold a measely .49 million.
If Awakening didn't sell a minimun .25 million, that would've been the end of the series... Awakening currently stands at 1.65 million, and even has a legitimate shot at 2 million! And Fates has a chance to even exceed whatever amount Awakening finishes at! It's currently tracking ahead in Japan, the same could be true for America and Europe if NOE and NOA play their cards right.
The reasons for this is due to the new elements that Awakening brought to the table which made it more accessible to the mass audience (Difficulty settings such as Casual Mode) as well as added a layer of depth to the game that made way for new fighters and ways of fighting to please RPG fans (Marriage system, which lead to children and more fighters for your team, etc.) and many more.
From the looks of Fates, it looks like the series will continue to climb higher and higher. To the point where it has become one of the main franchises under Nintendo's belt, alongside DK, Metroid, Star Fox, and such. Although not quite up there yet with Nintendo's Big Three.
All and all, Fire Emblem is now officially a successful, high quality, top ranking Nintendo franchise.......... on handhelds.

The same has not, cannot be said however for consoles. And THAT is the next step that the series should take in order to further its climb up the rankings in popularity both within Nintendo, and gaming in general.
So the question is, how can Nintendo and Intelligent Systems pull this off, if they were ever to try it again?

Because, from my perspective, I don't think that Fire Emblem, in its current state, would be able to replicate the same level of success its had on handhelds onto consoles.
And there are some reasons regarding consoles that prevent that, such as the massive difference in install base between the 3DS and the Wii U. Although the NX is just on the horizon.
But install bases aside. I don't see the series finding the same level of success for a variety of reasons. One overarching reason I have is that in its current form, its built more for handhelds than it is for consoles.
Reason 1) Awakening, while technically sound, and amazing in the gameplay and character department, didn't really impress, graphically, sure the CG cutscenes looked great, but they were few and far between. And the in game graphics weren't all that impressive, and not at the same level as other games that could REALLY show the 3DS' graphical powers such as Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask 3D, Xenoblade Chronicles 3D, Super Smash Bros. 3DS, and Resident Evil Revelations, just to name a few examples.
Fates, while looking like an improvement, still doesn't show anything that's awe-inspiring, (again CG cutscenes aside.)
The reason I emphasize this is because graphics and visuals are a HUGE part of any console game, especially since now we're well into the PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U's life cycles, and all three HD systems have had games that have proven to be visually stunning and graphical powerhouses.
And while, Mario and co. have been able to do it seemlessly, and Fire Emblem should be able to do it to. But it's checkerboard style of gameplay wouldn't very much graphically impress.

Reason 2) The series' lack of voice acting for the most part, could cripple its chances to find great success before it even begins development. Now I know, that everyone will be quick to pull the 'Zelda' card and show how games like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are still able to sell outstanding numbers despite not having voice acting. Both series, have completely different circumstances surrounding them.
Zelda was a hugely successful franchise, that had an incredible foundation already built since the very first game of the series on the NES back in 1986. And with each new game and generation that has built upon that foundation, most particularly, when the series jumped to 3D on the Nintendo 64 with what many gamers across the globe STILL consider to be the greatest game ever made with Ocarina of Time, a game that DIDN'T have voice acting either. Zelda has established itself to be a serious big time AAA franchise, that the entire gaming community and even small portions of the mass audience have respect for and look forward to, with each game being a critical and financial success, and it's been that way since DAY 1. As we approach the 30th anniversary of the series, even though we have no clue how Zelda Wii U might turn out, there's no doubt that the game is a highly anticipated title, that is most likely to be a critical and commercial success, and live up to the standards that're expected by gamers and Nintendo, alike, from a Zelda game, regardless of whether it's on handheld or console.
All of that, however, cannot be said for Fire Emblem.
Fire Emblem never had any sort of legitimate, big time, AAA levels of success, before Awakening, and I say that with all due respect to all the other games in the franchise. And, as established before, Fates will continue that upward trend, but, as stated before, both are on the 3DS handheld. And both games, on 3DS Game Cards, don't have much room for full-fledged voice acting unless they used cards of higher capacity, thus making the digital storage, if you were to buy the game digital, fly through the roof, as well as potentially increasing the price of the game itself. So it's understandable why full scale voice-acting wouldn't be an option for handhelds. Consoles, on the other hand, it needs to have voice acting, in all cutscenes, in game and CG, every line, not just one liners that are meant to spark emotion.

These 2 reasons are just based on the game's presentation, which, on a console, need to be much better and greater on all levels and scales than what a handheld could ever hope to achieve. However, let's get into the gameplay reason.

Reason 3) While the Fire Emblem style of gameplay is amazing and very enjoyable, it's not a style of gameplay that is meant for a console. It's checkerboard style of fighting and having areas in the game cutoff and seperated, it's meant more for a pick up and play experience on handhelds, rather than consoles, where the style of fighting for a console RPG is more direct and hands on, like Zelda or Assassin's Creed, and the worlds within the game are much more connected and united. An "open world" setting has become a standard nowadays, and any action-adventure or RPG console game that doesn't have that feature immediately has an uphill battle set against it. This is a reason why Nintendo is going with that approach with Zelda Wii U. And a Fire Emblem console game, in it's current state, wouldn't have nearly the same level of success it has on handhelds, aside from the usual die-hard Nintendo crowd.

So the way I see it. The best way that a Fire Emblem console game could be just as successful as the handheld titles, would be to do one of two things.

1) Make the presentation of the game the ABSOLUTE best it can be, graphics, voice acting, cutscenes, music, battles, all of it has to be top notch, state of the art presentation, that pushes the Wii U, or the NX, to it's absolute limits.

2) Completely change the formula to what is most popular among console RPGs, and action-adventure games. Like how Assassin's Creed, Zelda, modern Final Fantasy, and Xenoblade (fingers crossed that franchise becomes big time AAA player, it has every reason why it should!) have it and make it an open world styled RPG.

If you guys have any other ways or methods as to how it could be successful, please, feel free to share.
Or maybe it won't happen, and I'm just on a pipe dream.
What say you guys?



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I'd be honest, I find the much larger maps and the more complex mechanics of the console Fire Emblem games to be much much better than whatever Awakening has in store, though Fates is a really really refined game that gets close.

I want to see more in the vein of the Tellius games.
Fantastic music and artstyle (please bring them back, as much as I like how Fates handled both)
Triple-weapons triangle (add both Light/Dark/Anima and Wind/Fire/Thunder back)
Triple-stage class progression.
Skills system that does not require reclassing.
Massive maps with large numbers of units, and multi-stage chapters, hnnggh.
(Don't forget how Part 3 of Radiant Dawn turned out, item and unit micromanagement overkill)

But, most importantly, what happens to Ike (and Soren)?



 
I WON A BET AGAINST AZUREN! WOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:3

Fire Emblem Warrrriorrrsssss



Those would be great ways to add more layers and diversity to the combat system.



On the NX sure. You'll be able to play it at home on the TV or on the portable if you want.



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I think reasons 1 and 2 are not just easy to fix on a home console but could be totally flipped on their heads. Due to the confined arenas of the battles, the visuals could be outright spectacular. And the cut scenes are already great. You could do the maps - overworld and battle - in 3D and high detail a la Total War games for moving around. And of course, increasing voice acting, while costly, would be easily done. The writing is there and they cast well.

For gameplay, two things to look at. One is that XCOM: Enemy Unknown showed that strategy does have a descent potential on consoles. But the second point is you could help increase the RPG "feel" without messing with the gameplay. Making it possible to, say, buy and change gear (armor I mean) and have all changes show up visibly in battle. And removing the railway setup of Awakening on the over world and make it a map you roam like in, say, Chrono Trigger. This would help bring in more people who enjoy traditional JRPGs without messing with what Fire Emblem fans want.

And of course, advertise and timing. This sounds weird probably, but I think the game I just described could be a very good launch title. For the same reasons I feel that way about F-Zero. And that's spectacle. If you go balls to the wall graphically, a console Fire Emblem could easily - EASILY - be one of the most beautiful titles on any given home console. And every launch needs a showpiece. And being that showpiece helps sales.

 

As for what you described, that's more of a spinoff franchise under an umbrella IP.  Kinda like Persona is with Shin Megami Tensei.  That would be a good option and tactics could be preserved with something like the tactical view/mode in Dragon Age Origins.  But you run the risk of losing the game's unique selling points and putting it into the ring with opponents outside its weight class.



All great suggestions. I didn't even know about XCOM before. Although looking it up, I see that was multiplatform across PC, 360, and PS3.
Fire Emblem may have a bit of a challenge ahead of it, being an exclusive.
But other than that, great suggestions!



I think the success of Awakening will allow future titles to get a decent amount of sales at the very least.

Nintendo now has stronger hardware than the Wii, so I'm pretty sure they'd be able to up the presentation by a notch or two.

Now that I think about it, I could really use a console Fire Emblem, I'd play it in a heartbeat!



"Just for comparison Uncharted 4 was 20x bigger than Splatoon 2. This shows the huge difference between Sony's first-party games and Nintendo's first-party games."

Nuvendil said:

I think reasons 1 and 2 are not just easy to fix on a home console but could be totally flipped on their heads. Due to the confined arenas of the battles, the visuals could be outright spectacular. And the cut scenes are already great. You could do the maps - overworld and battle - in 3D and high detail a la Total War games for moving around. And of course, increasing voice acting, while costly, would be easily done. The writing is there and they cast well.

For gameplay, two things to look at. One is that XCOM: Enemy Unknown showed that strategy does have a descent potential on consoles. But the second point is you could help increase the RPG "feel" without messing with the gameplay. Making it possible to, say, buy and change gear (armor I mean) and have all changes show up visibly in battle. And removing the railway setup of Awakening on the over world and make it a map you roam like in, say, Chrono Trigger. This would help bring in more people who enjoy traditional JRPGs without messing with what Fire Emblem fans want.

And of course, advertise and timing. This sounds weird probably, but I think the game I just described could be a very good launch title. For the same reasons I feel that way about F-Zero. And that's spectacle. If you go balls to the wall graphically, a console Fire Emblem could easily - EASILY - be one of the most beautiful titles on any given home console. And every launch needs a showpiece. And being that showpiece helps sales.

 

As for what you described, that's more of a spinoff franchise under an umbrella IP.  Kinda like Persona is with Shin Megami Tensei.  That would be a good option and tactics could be preserved with something like the tactical view/mode in Dragon Age Origins.  But you run the risk of losing the game's unique selling points and putting it into the ring with opponents outside its weight class.

That would be hard to do, because I don't know any SRPGs that did that correctly.



XanderXT said:
Nuvendil said:

I think reasons 1 and 2 are not just easy to fix on a home console but could be totally flipped on their heads. Due to the confined arenas of the battles, the visuals could be outright spectacular. And the cut scenes are already great. You could do the maps - overworld and battle - in 3D and high detail a la Total War games for moving around. And of course, increasing voice acting, while costly, would be easily done. The writing is there and they cast well.

For gameplay, two things to look at. One is that XCOM: Enemy Unknown showed that strategy does have a descent potential on consoles. But the second point is you could help increase the RPG "feel" without messing with the gameplay. Making it possible to, say, buy and change gear (armor I mean) and have all changes show up visibly in battle. And removing the railway setup of Awakening on the over world and make it a map you roam like in, say, Chrono Trigger. This would help bring in more people who enjoy traditional JRPGs without messing with what Fire Emblem fans want.

And of course, advertise and timing. This sounds weird probably, but I think the game I just described could be a very good launch title. For the same reasons I feel that way about F-Zero. And that's spectacle. If you go balls to the wall graphically, a console Fire Emblem could easily - EASILY - be one of the most beautiful titles on any given home console. And every launch needs a showpiece. And being that showpiece helps sales.

 

As for what you described, that's more of a spinoff franchise under an umbrella IP.  Kinda like Persona is with Shin Megami Tensei.  That would be a good option and tactics could be preserved with something like the tactical view/mode in Dragon Age Origins.  But you run the risk of losing the game's unique selling points and putting it into the ring with opponents outside its weight class.

That would be hard to do, because I don't know any SRPGs that did that correctly.

True but if you can do it you will set yourself apart and be able to pull in some of that traditional RPG crowd who avoid SRPGs due to that kinda closed, linear feel.